# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 298
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6052 "2023-09-26T19:32:09Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > This is not proof of life, just as the Ukrainian claim is proof of his death. Correction: “…just as the Ukrainian claim is [_not_] proof of his death.” Funny: > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6053 "2023-09-26T22:46:43Z")
Nice photo: > ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6054 "2023-09-26T23:29:35Z")
Damn. This is not good. General Milley has been very helpful to Ukraine. How much isn’t openly discussed, but this article indicates he’s hands on with coordinating the Ukrainian training and overall strategy for a counter offense. His leadership be missed. I’m concerned his replacement will be more cautious in irritating the Russians. It’s easy to say you support Ukraine and actually do very little. > **[As Gen. Milley steps down as chairman, his work on Ukraine is just one part of...](https://apnews.com/article/mark-milley-chairman-joint-chiefs-legacy-31aa4818229448a5b5aa687fa10819dd)** > > As chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Army Gen. Mark Milley has spent the better part of the last two years rallying allies to provide weapons for the Ukrainians as they defend their country against the Russian forces. > [@](#): > > Observers said Milley was moved by the remarks, delivered privately to the NATO chiefs of defense who were seated around a large table at the close of a meeting on Ukraine aid. Bauer said Milley “prevented many a crisis from spiraling out of control,” both in the U.S. and around the world, and continued to fight even though “there were mornings when you didn’t know if you would be fired by sunset.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6055 "2023-09-27T15:27:02Z")
[**Russia May Have Just Given Ukraine Terms for Ending War**](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-may-have-just-given-ukraine-terms-for-ending-war/ar-AA1hixyt?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=3aeca5a048754dde80309541e0b90399&ei=18#image=1) > During a press conference at the United Nations General Assembly, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov indicated Russia would recognize Ukraine’s borders prior to Moscow’s invasion if Kyiv pledges to not join a military alliance. So the key thing Putin wants is for Ukraine not to join NATO. Prior to the invasion, Ukraine could not join NATO under the rules in place. Now it’s virtually guaranteed they will join. I say that Ukraine should agree in exchange for 1) Ending the war; 2) Having all of their territory (including Crimea) returned, and 3) Having their absolute sovereignty recognised. Once everything is settled, they can give the peace treaty all of the consideration Putin gave to the previous one. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6056 "2023-09-27T15:34:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > 1. Having their absolute sovereignty recognised. Very specifically including the sovereign right to conduct their foreign relations as they wish and participate in any international organization without interference. This peace proposal is not a true end of the war. It’s simply a glorified cease-fire to allow Russia to reconstitute and rearm. I hope no one is fooled. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6057 "2023-09-27T15:47:24Z")
**Moderating:** Posting the story is good for this thread. But to all please do not hijack the breaking news thread with speculation on Peace Treaties. Updating and adding to this thread would be a good fit for such. > [@Let's negotiate peace in Ukraine](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lets-negotiate-peace-in-ukraine/961973): > > In other threads, we’ve thrown around ideas about what kind of agreement would end the war in Ukraine. I thought it deserved its own thread, but if mods decide this belongs somewhere else that’s cool. So, let’s figure out a peace deal that will actually work. (Not what we’d like to see, which for me would be Russia giving everything back including Crimea and handing Putin over for trial in the Hague.) Let’s assume all parties are negotiating in good faith and will abide by the terms. Everything… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6058 "2023-09-27T18:59:39Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I thought it was more like the Death of Mary, Queen of Scots sketch. Or the “Bring out 'cher dead” guy in _Grail_. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6059 "2023-09-27T19:19:23Z")
The mystery of Admiral Sokolov’s fate remains unsolved: > > > > > > ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6060 "2023-09-27T19:38:06Z")
The video was **first released** yesterday, so that means it was recorded … when? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6061 "2023-09-27T19:39:24Z")
_Exactly._ ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6062 "2023-09-28T01:19:15Z")
US Aid to Ukraine through 29 Aug. 2023 (pdf - 3 pages) > **[20230829\_UKRAINE\_FACT\_SHEET.PDF](https://media.defense.gov/2023/Aug/29/2003290634/-1/-1/1/20230829_UKRAINE_FACT_SHEET.PDF)** > > 85.96 KB ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6063 "2023-09-28T02:46:21Z")
Back from their Belarus holiday. At least Poland can breathe a little easier. Guardian feed > [@](#): > > **Some mercenaries of the Russian Wagner group have left Belarus and returned to the front in** **Donetsk oblast** , a Ukrainian military spokesperson [told RBC-Ukraine.](https://www.rbc.ua/rus/news/vagnerivtsi-povernulisya-okupovaniy-shid-1695809157.html?utm_source=telegram&utm_medium=post) “We confirm that the ‘Wagners’ are present on the territory of the Eastern Group of Forces,” Illia Yevlash, spokesperson of the Eastern Group of Forces, said. “These are servicemen of the ‘Wagner’ PMK who were on the territory of Belarus. Now their camps are being disbanded there.” ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6064 "2023-09-28T03:27:26Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > General Milley has been very helpful to Ukraine. How much isn’t openly discussed, but this article indicates he’s hands on with coordinating the Ukrainian training and overall strategy for a counter offense. > > His leadership be missed. I’m concerned his replacement will be more cautious in irritating the Russians. If Milley was advocating on behalf of Ukraine in front of US allies or doing anything else to assist Ukraine in its war effort, it’s because the President or SECDEF told him to. US flag and general officers are surprisingly interchangeable at his level. I see no reason to believe anything will change. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6065 "2023-09-28T03:49:43Z")
I’m sure [General Brown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Q._Brown_Jr.) will be as effective in advocacy, as long as supporting Ukraine remains a priority for the administration. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6066 "2023-09-28T05:02:20Z")
[Minor hijack] When the walrusses start to attack you… it is time to consider your war-time objectives > [/end minor hijack] ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6067 "2023-09-28T11:25:50Z")
This is why Poland is not as supportive of Ukraine. I have wondered about recent news. Travel from Poland into Ukraine (Kiev) by train is an important route. Any further discussion would need a Poland thread. > **[A hard-right party gathers strength in Poland, pushing a new, less friendly...](https://apnews.com/article/poland-election-far-right-party-confederation-3d29f10eb59ad880c6f64d5025277a8c)** > > Poland’s hard-right Confederation party has been growing in popularity, especially among young men fed up with the political establishment. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6068 "2023-09-28T12:09:08Z")
That certainly looks more like “no, really, he’s alive” propaganda than the previous video. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6069 "2023-09-28T15:34:19Z")
This is a NATO-wide potential issue, if you think about it. Most of the member states have political right wings that are opposed to (or at least highly sceptical of) supporting Ukraine over Russia. Undoubtedly, Russia is continuing their covert efforts to interfere with the political processes of these nations to guarantee friendly governments. Poland is notable because it’s a direct neighbor and therefore logistically significant. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6070 "2023-09-28T23:22:42Z")
The factory in Iran that makes Shahed drones is reportedly on fire. > ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6071 "2023-09-28T23:37:14Z")
[CNN has the story](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/27/europe/viktor-sokolov-russia-ukraine-new-video-intl/index.html), well seasoned with uncertainty. > [@](#): > > Viktor Sokolov, commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, was asked by a reporter in a video about the missile strike on the fleet’s headquarters in Sevastopol, which Ukraine said had killed him. > > “The Black Sea Fleet is carrying out the tasks set by the command confidently and successfully,” Sokolov said in the video posted by Zvezda News, the media outlet of the Russian military on Telegram. That sounds like a total non-answer, such as might fit with edited-together video where the reporter’s question was pasted in. The attached CNN video claims he replied “_Nothing happened. Everything’s fine_.” Which I suppose we could accept, as Russia seems to to be the misinfo singularity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=297) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=299)