# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 304
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6172 "2023-10-15T18:08:06Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Ukraine is purchasing two Ada-class corvettes from Turkey, the first of which was launched last fall and is expected to be complete some time in 2024 It’s a start but in modern parlance corvettes are pretty dinky, smaller than a frigate. Of course, being equipped with Harpoon ASMs they’ll be capable of punching way above their weight. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6173 "2023-10-15T19:52:51Z")
A modern corvette could sink a WW-II aircraft carrier or cruiser before it even knew it was under attack. Now against modern larger warships a corvette is still a small warship. But lethality is waaay up from the old days. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6174 "2023-10-15T21:17:39Z")
Not to mention that the Black Sea is not remotely likely to have any of the those heavyweights. No American carrier would go near it, probably not even the larger cruisers. We _might_ send an Arleigh Burke, but that’s about as big as we would put in that glorified Great Lake. It’s a (modern) small ship theater. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6175 "2023-10-15T21:40:19Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > but that’s about as big as we would put in that glorified Great Lake. The Black Sea is not quite twice the size of all the Great Lakes combined 😉. 168,496 vs 94,250 sq miles. But granted it is unusually confined. Anyway by treaty Turkey places strict limits - [only warships of total tonnage of \>15,000 tons can pass through the straits with no more than nine at a time (with total tonnage capped), no submarines not owned by littoral Black Sea states and no aircraft carriers period.](https://www.mfa.gov.tr/implementation-of-the-montreux-convention.en.mfa) Of course in an actual shooting war where Turkey was participating, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6176 "2023-10-16T00:57:15Z")
I bow to the superior intellect. 🙂 So, at 9.5k tons, we could theoretically put 4 AB-class Destroyers in theater (“The maximum aggregate tonnage which non-littoral States may have in the Black Sea is 45.000 tons.” “Vessels of war belonging to non-littoral States cannot stay more than 21 days in the Black Sea.”) And your comment about Turkey being actively involved is quite astute. There is, after all, no mechanism for enforcing the Montreux Convention other than Turkey choosing to honor it. I also feel fairly confident that 4 Burke Destroyers would make short work of eliminating any Russian naval presence in the Black Sea. Not that this is in any way actually going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6177 "2023-10-16T01:22:50Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > [only warships of total tonnage of \>15,000 tons](https://www.mfa.gov.tr/implementation-of-the-montreux-convention.en.mfa) I assume you got your inequality signs mixed up, and that was supposed to be less than, not greater than? But if we had reason to destroy the Russian Black Sea fleet, I see no reason to suppose we’d do it using our own naval power. Aircraft or cruise missiles launched from allied countries would be more than sufficient. If we sent naval forces, it’d be to project force beyond the coasts of the Black Sea. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6178 "2023-10-17T14:49:25Z")
It seems that the US has finally given some ATACMS (300km range missiles for HIMARS/M270) to Ukraine. Ukraine has announced this by destroying 9 helicopters at the Berdyansk airfield. > > ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6179 "2023-10-17T14:57:03Z")
MFD DATE: 10\96? Except for a couple pinball machines, I don’t think I own any mechanical items that old that still work. That war theater really is where old weapons go to die. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6180 "2023-10-17T15:10:55Z")
Have you looked at the US Air Force’s warplane inventory? The typical B-52H Stratofortress in active nuclear service was ordered in 1960 or 1961. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6181 "2023-10-17T15:38:18Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It seems that the US has finally given some ATACMS Is that pronounced **Attack 'ems**? (I had’t heard of them before your post.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6182 "2023-10-17T15:44:51Z")
Yes. Not by accident. The industrial side of the military-industrial complex is very good with hand-crafting acronyms. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6183 "2023-10-17T16:17:06Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It seems that the US has finally given some ATACMS (300km range missiles for HIMARS/M270) to Ukraine. These are reportedly the older Block I missiles with about a 165 km range. Still an upgrade on what they had. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6184 "2023-10-17T17:12:05Z")
An article gives more information about “Operation Dragonfly,” where those missiles were used to hit Berdyansk. > **[Ukraine claims a major strike on Russian airfields and thanks US for...](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-avdiivka-attacks-8b5fd038c7e496dcb8f015b759b74666)** > > Ukraine claims to have carried out one of the most destructive attacks on Russian air assets since the beginning of the war. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6185 "2023-10-17T17:34:09Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > MFD DATE: 10\96? > > Except for a couple pinball machines, I don’t think I own any mechanical items that old that still work. I’ve got two tractors built in the 1950’s that work fine. And lots of smaller mechanical stuff. Question’s mostly a matter of maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6186 "2023-10-17T17:36:05Z")
**Moderating** Enough of the old Equipment off-topic bit. Clearly there are loads of older tools and vehicles still working fine. Please let us all move on. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6187 "2023-10-19T15:43:30Z")
> **[Missile hits Russia's Black Sea Fleet weapon stockpiles](https://www.yahoo.com/news/missile-hits-russias-black-sea-080300201.html)** > > A missile struck the weapon stockpiles of Russia's Black Sea Fleet in occupied Crimea on the evening of 18 October. Source: ASTRA Telegram channel with reference to sources Quote: "A missile has hit ammunition storage points belonging to Russia's... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6188 "2023-10-19T16:30:38Z")
I _love_ a good secondary in the morning! 🙂 That size plume is not consistent with Russia’s statement that an incoming rocket / missile landed harmlessly in an empty field. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6189 "2023-10-19T20:10:35Z")
Russia suffers another setback in their plans. I’m very impressed the Ukrainians defended against a sustained assualt from 4 directions. They must be well dug in and fortified. Guardian live feed > [@](#): > > A days-long attempt by Russian forces to storm a strategically important city in eastern [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) appears to be running out of steam, Kyiv officials said on Monday. > > Ukrainian forces repelled 15 Russian attacks from four directions on Avdiivka over the previous 24 hours, the Ukrainian general staff said. That compared with up to 60 attacks a day in the middle of last week, according to Vitalii Barabash, the head of the city administration. The slackening suggests the Russian effort to capture Avdiivka has “deflated”, Barabash said. > > A Washington-based thinktank broadly concurred with that assessment. “Russian forces continued offensive operations aimed at encircling Avdiivka … but have yet to make further gains amid a likely decreasing tempo of Russian operations in the area,” the Institute for the Study of War said in analysis published late on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6190 "2023-10-20T05:39:32Z")
Utterly bonkers numbers in today’s update from the Ukrainian MoD. Record numbers of personnel, tanks, and armored vehicles. Rumours going around that the failed attacks at Avdiivka are worse than anyone realizes. Avdiivka as a focal point for a Russian offensive makes zero sense, by the way. It’s probably the most fortified Ukrainian position on the entire front. It’s just outside of Donetsk city, and the Russians have been trying to take it since 2014. It does sit in a big salient, which I guess is why it’s been targeted, but it’s a big fortified position on a big hill. And taking it wouldn’t even really open the way for further gains. The lines here haven’t been largely static for the last 9 years for no reason. > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6191 "2023-10-20T10:41:42Z")
Russian helicopter population in decline due to overhunting: > > > Brady Africk @bradyafr Heart-warming scenes of Russian armored vehicles going boom: > [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=303) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=305)