# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 309
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6272 "2023-11-03T00:12:24Z")
Today the House passed a aid package for Israel that excludes Ukraine. Its not expected to get through the Senate. It doesn’t bode well for Ukraine’s future. Meanwhile Russia intensifies their attacks. > **[Ukraine war: Russia hits most settlements in one day, says Kyiv](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67283305)** > > Some 118 towns and villages were struck in 24 hours, the most this year, Kyiv's interior minister says. **Not for discussion** The current politics is the Elephant in the Ukrainian War room. LINK [US House passes $14.3bn aid package for Israel despite Democratic opposition | House of Representatives | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/02/us-house-republicans-aid-israel-biden-administration-threatens-veto) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6273 "2023-11-03T01:01:35Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Do you mean half of them were Russian convicts before entering combat, or that half of them are now held by the Ukrainians in Ukrainian POW camps? I meant the former but it would be an interesting number to calculate together. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6274 "2023-11-03T15:27:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Today the House passed a aid package for Israel that excludes Ukraine. Its not expected to get through the Senate. So is the Republican Party just full on Putin supporters now? Does he own that many of them? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6275 "2023-11-03T15:42:14Z")
It seems like Ukraine is barely keeping a stalemate with Russia. The article I linked yesterday reported a record number of villages hit in one day. Russia is pushing their war machine _hard_. I don’t need a crystal ball to understand Ukraine will falter quickly if their war supplies are significantly reduced. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6276 "2023-11-03T17:35:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So is the Republican Party just full on Putin supporters now? Does he own that many of them? Due to the House rules, they don’t all need to be Putinists, just the Speaker. The Speaker controls what legislation gets to the floor to be voted on. There’s a way around this called a discharge petition and I expect that’s eventually going to get used to pass a combined Israel/Ukraine (plus other stuff) aid package. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6277 "2023-11-03T18:22:57Z")
I wish they’d hurry. Putin is definitely taking advantage of the situation. I’m seeing comments from Ukraine fighters that they are suffering from the lack of help from us already. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6278 "2023-11-03T19:30:44Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Those Ukrainian tweets are pure propaganda and should be taken with a mighty grain of salt. Compared to Russian “news” they are a model of truthiness. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6279 "2023-11-03T23:43:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems like Ukraine is barely keeping a stalemate with Russia. Russia is bleeding through their antique collection of army surplus and using it to supply paroled prisoners. I’d say “barely keeping a stalemate” a serious accomplishment. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6280 "2023-11-04T14:03:58Z")
> **[Ukraine and Russia can't break their stalemate because their troops are...](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russia-cant-break-stalemate-front-too-long-dispersed-uk-2023-11?r=US&IR=T)** > > Neither Ukraine nor Russia can make any breakthroughs along the 745-mile front due to how dispersed their troops are, according to UK intelligence. Takeout is that airpower is what would be most likely to break the stalemate but neither side currently has that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6281 "2023-11-04T23:49:46Z")
Ukraine has likely damaged or sunk one of Russia’s most modern ships, a Kalibr cruise missile carrier based in the Kerch shipyard. Russian defense has confirmed the attack. > **[Russian Defence Ministry confirms Ukrainian Armed Forces hit ship at Kerch...](https://news.yahoo.com/russian-defence-ministry-confirms-ukrainian-214805702.html)** > > The Russian Defence Ministry has said that a ship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, located at a shipyard in Kerch, "has been damaged". Source: Russian Defence Ministry Details: Russian propagandists claim that Ukraine fired 15 cruise missiles on the... ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6282 "2023-11-05T19:42:47Z")
quite a sobering representation on what has happened on the s-e front in the past 11 months: . [![](https://i.postimg.cc/KcfqfcfH/image.png) ](https://i.postimg.cc/KcfqfcfH/image.png) the talk about a stagnant war is for a reason ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6283 "2023-11-05T20:09:33Z")
Wars aren’t all about territory, though. Let the enemy pound on a static front line for long enough, especially the way that Russia has been doing, and eventually there won’t be any enemy left to do the pounding. Once that happens, you can pretty much take all the territory you want. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6284 "2023-11-05T22:37:12Z")
I think Zelenskiy is making a mistake. Even UK intelligence confirms what the General said. Zelenskiy should continue asking for more aid to break the stalemate. It’s not a failure of his military. Ukraine needs a effective air force to break the stalemate. (That’s from the general’s comments) I hope Zelenskiy didn’t demote his best General for speaking out. > **[Zelenskiy denies Ukrainian general’s claim war is at stalemate](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/05/zelenskiy-denies-ukrainian-generals-claim-war-is-at-stalemate)** > > President says Ukraine must keep fighting, and aide says general’s comments ‘make aggressor’s job easier’ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6285 "2023-11-05T22:51:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Zelenskiy should continue asking for more aid to break the stalemate. And of course he is. What’s the mistake? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6286 "2023-11-05T23:02:32Z")
Since after ~week 4 in this stupid Putin-caused war, Putin has been gambling that he can make the Russian military outlast the Western public. Especially while said public (and the elected politicians and up-and-coming candidates) are under continuous Russian propaganda assault. If the US House is representative (heh 😉 ) of many other Western nations, Putin may well win his gamble in the next 6-12 months. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6287 "2023-11-06T00:01:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And of course he is. What’s the mistake? I saw the NY Times article earlier today. I know this is probably a translation. But the people are tired comment is a slow burn against the General. I do understand Generals usually stay quiet and don’t make public statements. I don’t believe Ukraine has many top strategists. They shouldn’t shoot themselves in the ass by demoting one that spoke out. > [@](#): > > Time has passed, people are tired … But this is not a stalemate. Russia controls the sky. We take care of our military. No one wants to simply abandon them, like Russia abandons its people like meat. How to overcome this? F-16, we have to wait for the guys to learn, when they come back. When there is air defence at the front, the military goes forward and uses equipment The Guardian > [@](#): > > A rift has emerged in **Ukraine** ’s leadership, the New York Times is reporting, with President Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s office on Saturday chastising Ukraine’s top military commander, Valerii Zaluzhnyi. > > Gen Zaluzhnyi said in the [Economist](https://infographics.economist.com/2023/ExternalContent/ZALUZHNYI_FULL_VERSION.pdf) that the war was at a stalemate – with Zelenskiy’s office saying the comments could help **Russia**. > > More from the [Times here](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/04/world/europe/zelensky-rebuke-general-zaluzhny.html): > > > It was a striking public rebuke that signaled an emerging rift between the military and civilian leadership at an already challenging time for Ukraine. > > > > Speaking on national television, a deputy head of the office of the president, Ihor Zhovkva, said Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi’s assertion that the fight against Russia was deadlocked “eases the work of the aggressor,” adding that the comments stirred “panic” among Ukraine’s Western allies. > > > > At the same time, Mr. Zelensky disputed the general’s characterization of the fighting. “Time has passed, people are tired, regardless of their status, and this is understandable,” he said at a news conference on Saturday, adding: “But this is not a stalemate, I emphasize this once again.” > > > > The public censure of General Zaluzhnyi came a day after the president’s office replaced one of his deputies, the head of special operations forces, who after his firing said he had been blindsided by the dismissal. It was unclear whether General Zaluzhnyi, the overall commander of Ukraine’s forces, knew in advance of the planned dismissal. > > > > The emerging fissure between the general and the president comes as Ukraine is struggling in its war effort, militarily and diplomatically. Its operations along the roughly 600-mile-long trench line have failed to produce any advances, while resulting in high casualties on both sides, and Ukraine is facing intensified Russian attacks in the East. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6288 "2023-11-06T16:31:33Z")
Zaluzhnyi is thinking military strategy, Zelensyy is thinking Diplomatic strategy. While Zaluzhnyi may be 100% correct, this is not the message that Zelenskyy wants to send out, both in terms of troop morale and in terms of getting more outside aid. Zelenskyy wants the message to be, “we are all most at the tipping point just give us a little more and we can win, you don’t want to scrap all we’ve acheived when we are so close to victory”, not “there is no end in sight and you are going to have to keep pouring in money for the foreseeable future just to keep us afloat.” ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6289 "2023-11-06T22:28:39Z")
You don’t get to his level in the military having no political sensibilities. His job as much as anyone in the upper levels of command is to make sure his forces have the right strategy and resources to do the job. Making public ( emphasis on public) statements that are going to have a detrimental effect on getting the right equipment are either a brain fart, intentional , or downright stupid and he should probably realize a slap down is coming and likely deserved. Obviously that is for public statements, behind the scenes anything other than a honest perception of the situation is of course required. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6290 "2023-11-07T00:09:00Z")
As MacArthur also found out, a soldier _can_ get to the place where they have an irreconcilable difference of opinion with their political leadership. One way or the other they’re going to end up out the door once they get there. Either back down, resign, or get fired. Once you take “back down” off your table the end state is clear; it’s just a matter of choosing your route to get there. At least this is true in healthy governments where the military does actually work for the civilians rather than vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6291 "2023-11-07T01:27:42Z")
Photos and video of Russian Karakurt-class corvette Askold, hit by SCALP/Storm Shadow missiles: > > > NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 @NOELreports > [![](https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Russia-Project-22800-Karakurt-class-small_missile_boat_corvette_Uragan.jpg) ](https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Russia-Project-22800-Karakurt-class-small_missile_boat_corvette_Uragan.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=308) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=310)