# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 314
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6372 "2023-11-28T03:40:40Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > (b) for all their whining, the Russians clearly understand that NATO is not the actual combat threat their comical saber-rattling would seem to indicate. NATO would be a major, indeed overwhelming, threat once combat has started. But Russia clearly understands that they’re the only side engaged in starting combat for the hell of it. They could withdraw all their forces of all sorts from every border region they have and nobody would move in. Nobody. Well, except maybe for Ukraine, but they’ve been given a Darn Good Reason as Steve Martin once said. > [@Cardigan](#): > > Russia by rights, should have been trying the last two years to establish air superiority as their first priority. Russia is not seeing a problem with Ukraine’s air force or helos causing much damage. They have _de facto_ air superiority over their own forces. The problem the Russians are having stems from missiles, rockets, and drones, plus good old fashioned artillery. The defense against which is not conventionally defined as air superiority. > [@eschereal](#): > > Russia has had [76 passenger planes seized](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-airliners-sanctions-seized/32699688.html) by other countries in which they happened to be as sanctions took hold. There are still over eleven hundred in the greater fleet, but 76 seems like a lot of money. You missed which direction the money flows. Pre-war the Russians had about 1100 airliners, almost all of which were Western products leased from Western businesses or bought from Boeing or Airbus and mortgaged by Western banks. All of which jets the Russians have seized, and are not paying lease fees or mortgage payments on. Of the 1100, some 76 have been successfully repossessed when they somehow ended up in the West. Most of which occurred in the first week of the war. The remaining 1000+ airplanes at $50M to $100M each have been successfully stolen by Russia. And given the maintenance problems caused by sanctions, those airplanes will be constructive losses even if the war ends tomorrow and all is forgiven. Once you can’t trust the provenance of every single part on the jet it’s cheaper to scrap it than to replace everything you can’t prove is good. The worldwide airline leasing / financing industry is looking at a $50B-100B loss of assets. And the loss of income those assets would have produced in the absence of the war. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Are Russian airliners now restricted to domestic routes? Will they be seized if they land on foreign soil? If they are owned by Western leasing companies or have Western banks backing their mortgages, yes. One or the other of which applies to nearly the entire Russian fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6373 "2023-11-28T15:01:31Z")
Ukraine says that Russian killed and wounded for November averaged 931 per day. UK Ministry of Defense says that’s a reasonable estimate. So about 24,000 so far this month. I read another post that said Russia has advanced about 2 km near Adviika which is their greatest advance since the spring. I know Russia has a population 3-4 times that of Ukraine but they still can’t afford to loose 12 soldiers per meter advanced. Not that Putin cares. > ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6374 "2023-11-28T16:20:19Z")
This is probably some kind of psychological attack on the spy chief would be my guess. Why take him out (with unknown consequences since you don’t know who his successor will be) when you can hurt him _and_ make people paranoid instead? If it isn’t Russia, I’ll be somewhat surprised, but it could easily be something faction-related. > **[Ukraine spy chief's wife poisoned, says Kyiv](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67552036)** > > Heavy metals were used to poison Kyrylo Budanov's wife, Marianna, an intelligence official tells the BBC. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6375 "2023-11-28T16:41:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And given the maintenance problems caused by sanctions, those airplanes will be constructive losses even if the war ends tomorrow and all is forgiven. Once you can’t trust the provenance of every single part on the jet it’s cheaper to scrap it than to replace everything you can’t prove is good. To what extent can you cannibalize parts from civilian airliners to maintain military planes? Because to whatever extent that’s possible, Russia is probably doing it, leaving those airliners even more inoperable. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6376 "2023-11-28T16:53:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The worldwide airline leasing / financing industry is looking at a $50B-100B loss of assets. And the loss of income those assets would have produced in the absence of the war. Yes. Quite a significant loss. Russia better ramp up their civilian aircraft production, because they’re going to be cut out of the world market for the foreseeable future. Oh wait, they need all production for the war effort. Never mind. Boeing, Airbus, (together 90% of the market) Bombadier, Embraer, Dassault. They won’t be selling to Russia anytime soon. The Chinese company Comac is trying to enter the market with a widebody airliner. They did have a joint venture with Russia, but that’s in the toilet now. Yet more consequences of Putin’s ill advised ego trip/invasion. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6377 "2023-11-28T18:37:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To what extent can you cannibalize parts from civilian airliners to maintain military planes? Because to whatever extent that’s possible, Russia is probably doing it, leaving those airliners even more inoperable. I’d bet the extent is minimal. Mostly because the airliners are Western products, while the Russian military is equipped almost exclusively with home-grown Soviet or post-Soviet Russian products. I would certainly expect that the e.g. hydraulic pumps on a Tupolev airliner and a Tupolev bomber are similar if not the very same part number. But that won’t be the same as what’s found on a Boeing or Airbus. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6378 "2023-11-28T21:39:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Boeing, Airbus…won’t be selling to Russia anytime soon. But what about India? Companies based in India could order the parts from Boeing, and pass them on to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6379 "2023-11-28T21:41:23Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The Chinese company Comac is trying to enter the market with a widebody airliner. They did have a joint venture with Russia, but that’s in the toilet now. They could ask Elmo for help. He might be able to throw billions at them for the opportunity to memify the “joint venture”. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6380 "2023-11-28T21:48:43Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But what about India? > Companies based in India could order the parts from Boeing, and pass them on to Russia. I would hope that breaking sanctions against Russia would be monitored pretty closely, and any company doing such an obvious ploy would be blacklisted quickly. They would then not get any parts from Boeing, and that would be bad for them. Also, any company in India ordering parts from Boeing would have to have a track record and show where the parts are going in the first place. It’s not like Boeing is going to happily sell to a brand new company who has no connection with it’s planes in India. It would be pretty obvious what they’re up to. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6381 "2023-11-28T22:01:00Z")
The problem is that Russia’s credit is in the toilet, so nobody, anywhere, is going to accept credit from Russia. The only way anyone is going to be willing to sell anything to Russia is for cash up front (real cash, which they don’t have, not rubles), or a trade for some tangible asset equal to the full value (including inflated price) of whatever they’re selling. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6382 "2023-11-29T16:15:19Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I would certainly expect that the e.g. hydraulic pumps on a Tupolev airliner and a Tupolev bomber are similar if not the very same part number. But that won’t be the same as what’s found on a Boeing or Airbus. Reminds me of that Johnny Cash song, “One Piece at a Time” _Now, up to now my plan went all right 'Til we tried to put it all together one night And that’s when we noticed that something was definitely wrong The transmission was a '53 and the motor turned out to be a '73 And when we tried to put in the bolts all the holes were gone_ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6383 "2023-11-29T17:51:28Z")
[A major storm](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67541166) has caused power outages in Donbas, Crimea and Russian Azov-adjacent oblasts. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6384 "2023-11-29T23:49:08Z")
A Russian _Major General_ stepped on amine in the rear area of the battlefield. He was deputy commander of the 14th Army Corps of the Russian Federation. Article says it’s suspected another Russian unit placed mines to prevent Ukrainian raids. > **[Russian major general killed in Ukraine after triggering mine](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/11/29/7430926/)** > > Russia has confirmed the death of Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war in Ukraine. He was blown up by a mine. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6385 "2023-11-29T23:50:22Z")
Well, he certainly put his foot in it _that_ time! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6386 "2023-11-29T23:56:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A Russian _Major General_ stepped on amine in the rear area of the battlefield. Those ammonia-based compounds will get you every time. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6387 "2023-11-29T23:59:08Z")
I read it that he was wiping his feet on subversive pro-Ukraine anime. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6388 "2023-11-30T00:06:44Z")
Mines are a gift that just keeps on giving. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6389 "2023-11-30T00:17:34Z")
Another blue on blue incident. Russian personnel aren’t safe from their own forces in the air or the ground. Losing a deputy commander of the 14th Army Corps should impact leadership for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6390 "2023-11-30T01:17:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A Russian _Major General_ stepped on amine in the rear area of the battlefield. He was deputy commander of the 14th Army Corps of the Russian Federation. > > Article says it’s suspected another Russian unit placed mines to prevent Ukrainian raids. Am I the only person who immediately thought of Stripes [“Blown up Sir”](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=586470193&q=blown+up+sir&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0-vnLxeqCAxUIvokEHWvBA04Q7xYoAHoECAkQAg&biw=1252&bih=525&dpr=1.09#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:63dc72fe,vid:AOPQwtRDspQ,st:0). ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6391 "2023-11-30T01:21:36Z")
He is the very model of a Russia Major General, with footsteps both explosive and ephemeral. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=313) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=315)