# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 317
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6432 "2023-12-11T20:04:05Z")
In Putin’s defense, if you think you’ve conquered a chunk of farmland, of course its produce is yours to harvest and sell at potentially great profit. It’s how it worked the last time Czars ruled Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6433 "2023-12-12T04:21:07Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > In Putin’s defense, if you think you’ve conquered a chunk of farmland, of course its produce is yours to harvest and sell at potentially great profit. Its a bit of a nitpick but they’re not harvesting farmland. They’re emptying silos. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6434 "2023-12-12T05:37:36Z")
I think that’s a distinction conquering plundering hordes don’t care to make. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6435 "2023-12-12T06:58:34Z")
The UK keeps stepping up and helping. They’ve done a lot for a smaller country. > **[UK to give two Royal Navy minehunter ships to Ukraine](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67676029)** > > It forms part of a wider effort to bolster Ukraine's abilities at sea, as the war with Russia continues. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6436 "2023-12-12T15:57:25Z")
It’s a good thought, but it’s doubtful that Turkey would allow a warship of a belligerent through the Bosphorus, per the Montrose Convention. So how much this helps is doubtful. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6437 "2023-12-12T16:09:05Z")
Throw some nets on the deck and claim they are going to fish for sardines. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6438 "2023-12-12T16:17:52Z")
You’d think the UK asked Turkey first before making a grand gesture. Ya know, It’s time to _talk turkey_. 🤣 Perhaps a C-130J Hercules might transport a partially dismantled Mine Sweeper? One day it just appears at the Port of Odesa. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6439 "2023-12-12T16:28:53Z")
I suppose that technically, the UK, as a non-belligerent country, could sail them through the Straits under their own flag, and then not make the gift official until they were in Ukrainian waters. Whether Turkey accepts that technicality or not depends on just how much Russia is annoying them and how “neutral” they want to be. Their official position of “No ships from either side” is already pretty clearly biased towards Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6440 "2023-12-12T16:45:47Z")
Volodymyr Zelenskiy is racking up the frequent flyer credits. Guardian feed > [@](#): > > Ukraine’s president, **Volodymyr Zelenskiy** , is in Washington today, where he will meet **Joe Biden** as he attempts to rescue a critical $61bn military aid package. Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, said Zelenskiy [told senators earlier](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/12/russia-ukraine-war-live-zelenskiy-to-meet-biden-in-push-for-aid?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-65787f038f0889f38750a6c9#block-65787f038f0889f38750a6c9) that “if he gets the help, he can win this war”. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6441 "2023-12-12T20:12:31Z")
I wonder if this is why we had helicopters circling today. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6442 "2023-12-12T22:25:41Z")
US Intelligence estimates Russian casualties at 315,000 troops, compared to 340,000 estimated by Defense of Ukraine. > **[U.S. intelligence assesses Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 casualties -...](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/)** > > A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6443 "2023-12-12T23:29:30Z")
the money the US sent to UKR had the highest ROI of all defense spendings EVER in the US. never before the “per dollar” impact was higher than what the UKR is doing … ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6444 "2023-12-13T09:43:22Z")
How do you figure that? Are you just dividing the total amount of US aid in dollars by the total number of Russian casualties? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6445 "2023-12-13T10:00:55Z")
pretty much, yeah… ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6446 "2023-12-13T11:11:46Z")
Well, [according to the Department of State](https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/), between February 24, 2022 and December 6, 2023, the US provided $44.2 billion in military assistance to Ukraine. And according to the wire story quoted by @Fear_Itself, the US estimates Russian casualties at 315,000. So that works out to $140,317 per enemy combatant casualty. (And of course this calculation completely disregards other factors, such as the contribution of Ukraine and other countries to the war effort.) How does this figure compare to other wars financed by the US? There’s a handy report on the [Costs of Major US Wars](https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf) that give spending totals in 2011 dollars, which we can increase by 36.5% to get figures in 2023 dollars. Here’s what I’ve come up with, based on enemy combatant casualty figures given by Wikipedia: Persian Gulf War: $139,234,201,272 ÷ 125,000 = $1,113,874 per casualty Vietnam War: $1,007,400,397,441 ÷ 1,704,200 = $591,128 per casualty Korean War: $465,479,045,430 ÷ 1,047,108 = $444,538 per casualty So it seems that, using this simple metric, these wars were indeed more expensive for the US, per casualty. But it should be borne in mind that these wars all saw substantial direct involvement from the US. A better basis of comparison with Ukraine might be proxy wars, such as those in Syria and Yemen, where the US does lots of funding but comparatively little fighting. Unfortunately, it’s a lot harder to come up with spending figures for those wars. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6447 "2023-12-13T12:55:05Z")
That assumes that the objective in war is to kill the enemy, Sun Tzu weeps. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6448 "2023-12-13T13:04:13Z")
It doesn’t apply to all wars, but sometimes it does. I remember reading various opinion pieces that came out a few weeks after the start of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, when it had become obvious that they would be retaking very little territory, that this should have been the focus. Rather than trying to retake territory, Ukraine should have focused on killing as many Russian soldiers as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6449 "2023-12-13T13:08:31Z")
It may apply to _operations_ in war, but never to the war itself, the objective of war is to achieve political gains. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6450 "2023-12-13T13:28:53Z")
[U.S. Defense Sec. Austin: We Want to See Russia Weakened (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_pCZeOY94E) In the case of the US, our goal has been to weaken Russia to the point where it will be a long time before Russia can think about doing to its other neighbors what it attempted to do with Ukraine. Russian body counts aren’t the supreme goal, but along with the losses of thousands of tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, air defenses etc. they’re clearly a major part of that war goal. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6451 "2023-12-13T13:32:49Z")
That makes more sense [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=316) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=318)