# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 318
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6452 "2023-12-13T13:34:12Z")
US strategy is the same as during the Cold War (at this point we should probably start calling it the “previous” Cold War). Outspend the Russians until they reach a point where it is no longer tenable for them to continue to make war. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6453 "2023-12-13T13:45:49Z")
Seldom does the US get conflicts like the one in Ukraine where there’s relative moral, political, and strategic clarity. That’s why it’s particularly baffling to me why certain elements on the right are opposed to supporting Ukraine. It’s like we’ve been handed the opportunity to give a strategic adversary a black eye on the cheap while spending no American blood in the process. Kinda like wrapping up the Cold War and putting a tidy bow on it. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6454 "2023-12-13T13:57:49Z")
Not only that, but as I understand it, where that “money” is going to end up is in the coffers of the arms industry anyway. So it makes even less sense to me, as this seems very out of the ordinary. I thought the arms industry had better and more effective lobbyists. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6455 "2023-12-13T14:08:19Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > That’s why it’s particularly baffling to me why certain elements on the right are opposed to supporting Ukraine. It’s not baffling when one understands who supports certain elements on the right. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6456 "2023-12-13T14:11:15Z")
I was thinking baffling from the standpoint of our national interests…but I see what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6457 "2023-12-13T15:10:12Z")
Drop in the bucket compared to the billion Biden needs for Ukraine. The Guardian feed > [@](#): > > ## Biden says he has signed $200m emergency aid drawdown as he meets Zelenskiy in Oval Office > > Zelenskiy gave reasonably lengthy comments about his time in Washington, thanking everyone who had met with him so far. > > “People need to be confident that freedom is secure,” he concluded. > > Biden, who told Zelenskiy not to give up hope in the fight against Russia and said Congress should provide additional aid, told reporters to quiet down, then said he had just signed “another $200m drawdown from the department of defense for Ukraine”. > > Here’s how the state department website [defines](https://www.state.gov/use-of-presidential-drawdown-authority-for-military-assistance-for-ukraine/) a drawdown: > > > The use of the Presidential Drawdown Authority to direct a drawdown to provide military assistance under section 506(a)(1) of the Foreign Assistance Act (FAA) is a valuable tool of US foreign policy in crisis situations. > > > > It **allows for the speedy delivery of defense articles and services from Department of Defense stocks to foreign countries and international organizations to respond to unforeseen emergencies**. Such assistance can begin arriving within days – or even hours – of approval. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6458 "2023-12-13T16:01:39Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Well, [according to the Department of State](https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/), between February 24, 2022 and December 6, 2023, the US provided $44.2 billion in military assistance to Ukraine. The U.S. spent about a billion dollars per day on its own various wars. No wonder Zelenskiy is frustrated. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6459 "2023-12-13T16:04:24Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The U.S. spent about a billion dollars per day on its own various wars. No wonder Zelenskiy is frustrated. Well, if he expects another government to give his country’s wars anything close to the same priority/funding as their own, then he’s unreasonable. I mean, how much did Ukraine spend funding the wars of other invaded countries where the invader wasn’t a substantial threat to themselves relative to how much they spend on their own? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6460 "2023-12-13T16:06:14Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > That’s why it’s particularly baffling to me why certain elements on the right are opposed to supporting Ukraine. Me too. This is why I go to the explanation that these certain elements are in Putin’s pocket somehow, either through direct bribery or kompromat. Edit: Person before Party Party before Country “national interests” you say? They don’t know the meaning of these words. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6461 "2023-12-13T16:14:29Z")
I vividly remember when our country was nearly united against the Soviet Union. We just don’t take the Russian threat as seriously. That could be a fatal error if Putin suceeds in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6462 "2023-12-13T16:15:49Z")
And most of the aid we’ve sent to Ukraine hasn’t been money; it’s been materiel. Things that were already bought and paid for, and that we bought a lot of. And the reason we bought a lot of it is precisely because we anticipated needing to use a lot of it to fight against Russia specifically. The part where we’re sending it to Ukraine isn’t the part where we’re spending money; it’s the part where we’re finally getting return on our investment. Not sending it to Ukraine is like refusing to cash your paycheck, because you don’t want to do all the hard work to earn your pay. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6463 "2023-12-13T16:27:04Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > That assumes that the objective in war is to kill the enemy, Sun Tzu weeps. jep, I think it’s hard to put a price on: - “the RU black-sea-armada is pretty much inoperable now” - Moskva sunk - RU Submarine sunk - 2000+ tanks destroyed - 100s of aircraft destroyed - 100s of AA systems destroyed - 10s of 1000 of other war relevant vehicles destroyed (from trucks to personnel transporters) - huge depletion of RU cruise missiles … - last but not least - the **HUGE PR fail of Russia** having professional and hard hitting armed forces (than many believed before feb-2022) Again, I’d call it “money wisely spent” by the US/EU et al. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6464 "2023-12-13T16:56:55Z")
> **Summary** > > > [@Cardigan](#): > > > > Seldom does the US get conflicts like the one in Ukraine where there’s relative moral, political, and strategic clarity. That’s why it’s particularly baffling to me why certain elements on the right are opposed to supporting Ukraine. It’s like we’ve been handed the opportunity to give a strategic adversary a black eye on the cheap while spending no American blood in the process. Kinda like wrapping up the Cold War and putting a tidy bow on it. > > I realised that the world had changed when Trump in his campaign openly called on “Russia, if you’re listening”, to hack the government e-mails of the former Secretary of State and publish them. > > I remember thinking, “That’s it, he’s done.” > > I was wrong. Turns out Republicans are fine with having their good friends in Russia hacking the Secretary of State and accessing confidential government documents, so long as it’s in the service of the Republican candidate. > > Why this has happened, I don’t understand. But that episode, followed up by the Helsinki press conference, showed that for Republicans, the Russians are their friends. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6465 "2023-12-13T17:06:17Z")
Closed on December 13, 2023, 5:06pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6466 "2023-12-13T17:08:03Z")
**Moderating** I let the conversation go for a bit, but this is an outrageous post for the breaking news thread. Hidden and watch these political diatribes. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6467 "2023-12-13T17:18:30Z")
Opened on December 13, 2023, 5:18pm UTC This topic was automatically opened after 9 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6469 "2023-12-13T17:50:21Z")
Quite right. My apologies. I will open a Politics and Elections thread on the matter, because this is an issue that has been occupying my thoughts for a while and I would welcome other comments. New thread in P&E: [When and why did Republicans start seeing Russia as allies?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-and-why-did-republicans-start-seeing-russia-as-allies/994562) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6470 "2023-12-13T23:04:08Z")
Western Countries better take note. Russia’s hackers or some other black hat got skills. I’ve read Ukraine online systems were fortified just before the war started. (It was a team that were working there in preparation for a massive cyber attack). This is a significant security vulnerability and needs to be identified and patched. Guard feed > [@](#): > > In Ukraine, the country’s biggest mobile phone network, Kyivstar, was badly hit on Tuesday by what appeared to be the largest cyber-attack of the war with Russia so far. Phone signals, the internet and some of Kyiv region’s air alert system were knocked out, in an attack that the company’s chief executive was “a result of” the war with Russia. > > Ukrainian sources indicated that the attack was not financially motivated, but destructive in nature, and it was unclear who precisely was responsible. The country’s SBU intelligence service said it was investigating whether the attack had been directed by one of Russia’s intelligence agencies. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6471 "2023-12-14T19:06:55Z")
It’s just the first little step in a process, but the EU is open to eventually inducting Ukraine & Moldova, (and Georgia is a candidate). > **[EU to open membership talks with Ukraine and Moldova](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67722252)** > > Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky hails the decision as "a victory" for his country and Europe. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6472 "2023-12-15T13:01:45Z")
Nice move while Russia is preoccupied in Ukraine. A few years ago an attack on Finland seemed absurd. However, their border is a security for Russia. The Guardian > [@](#): > > **Finland will sign a defence agreement with the US** , the Finnish government has said, to grant the US military broad access across the Nordic country to the vicinity of its long border with [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=317) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=319)