# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 319
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6473 "2023-12-15T13:38:37Z")
But hey, Putin kept NATO away from his borders, and that’s what matters. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6474 "2023-12-15T18:22:24Z")
And he kept NATO from expanding it’s membership. Or something. Sort of. If you squint. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6475 "2023-12-15T19:46:43Z")
A fascinating story. Not going to comment further since it might be somewhat tangential. But worth your time, I guarantee. > **[The Most Consequential Act of Sabotage in Modern Times](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/12/nord-stream-pipeline-attack-theories-suspects-investigation/676320/)** > > The destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline curtailed Europe’s reliance on Russian gas. But who was responsible? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6476 "2023-12-15T19:54:15Z")
Paywalled. Can you post a synopsis (assuming Russian aggression against Ukraine’s allies counts as part of the invasion)? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6477 "2023-12-15T20:00:21Z")
Sorry, longish article hard to summarize. This may be more accessible. > **[The Mystery That No One Wants Solved - Mark Bowden](https://qoshe.com/the-atlantic/mark-bowden/the-mystery-that-no-one-wants-solved/168342424)** > > Behind the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline, one of the most consequential acts of sabotage in modern timesAt 2:03 a.m. on Monday, September 26, 2022, at the bottom of the Baltic Sea, an explosion tore open one of the four massive underwater... ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6478 "2023-12-15T23:43:30Z")
> **[Court voids fine given to Russian activist for criticizing war and sends case...](https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-prison-memorial-orlov-strelkov-navalny-4c9cb122e99a4836e9e731be09c4596c)** > > A court in Russia has overturned a fine handed to a veteran human rights advocate for speaking out against the war in Ukraine. The prosecutors, back to whom the case is being referred, will probably seek a 3-year prison sentence, which will be more punitive than the US$1300 fine. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6479 "2023-12-16T03:41:09Z")
A very long article. It’s worth a full read. I quoted a short section. Length of service without rotations has to be solved. The most patriotic and determined soldiers defending their homes still can’t serve front line duty for many years. The stress and mental toll is too much. Exhausted men make mistakes and it can get them killed or horribly maimed. Maimed or dead soldiers can’t fight and defend anyone. Although Putin might disagree about his superior forces. 😉 Link [Yes, tiredness is ravaging the Ukrainian soldiers I meet. But they never think of giving up | Nataliya Gumenyuk | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/15/ukrainian-soldiers-ukraine-volodymyr-zelenskiy) > [@](#): > > Contrary to foreign media headlines, Ukrainian soldiers don’t talk so much about the [lack of progress in the counteroffensive](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/11/as-its-counteroffensive-stalls-ukraine-signals-readiness-for-a-long-war). Initially, those fighting had a sober view on the possibility of liberating the rest of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions without a decent air force and sufficient demining. (As one soldier, who lost his leg near Bakhmut this summer, told me, “For us, 200 metres of liberated land means a few dead and eight legs”). > > Now, what Ukrainian soldiers really care about is physical tiredness. There is no procedure for discharging those who went to fight at the start of the invasion, including those who volunteered. They have a duty to serve until the end of the war. Last month, some servicemen’s relatives sent an appeal to the headquarters of the supreme commander-in-chief asking for clearly defined terms of service. “The assumption that experienced soldiers after 20 months of active combat remain motivated and have the physical and psychological resources to continue military service is false,” it read. > > It’s become such a big issue that Zelenskiy has instructed the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, the general staff, and the ministry of defence to find solutions, while factions in parliament are preparing a draft law that will change the rules for mobilising and discharging soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6480 "2023-12-16T16:08:47Z")
A post was split to a new topic as it had no business in this thread: [Is their a danger that Ukraine could eventually be overwhelmed by the vastly larger population of Russia?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-their-a-danger-that-ukraine-could-eventually-be-overwhelmed-by-the-vastly-larger-population-of-russia/994695) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6483 "2023-12-17T14:44:56Z")
Perhaps Ukrainians might want some short, stubby Russian sausages to feed to their pigs? The brutal things that happen in war no longer surprise me. These photos look real too me. YMMV > **[Russians carved swastikas into foreheads of Ukrainian captives](https://news.yahoo.com/russians-carved-swastikas-foreheads-ukrainian-170000506.html)** > > Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are facing the future with life-altering injuries from torture, explosions and active fighting ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6484 "2023-12-17T23:07:45Z")
Russian bomber base is on the target iist. Perhaps the same air base partisans bombed last month? Link [Russia shoots down 35 Ukrainian drones as both sides step up attacks | Russia | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/17/russia-shoots-down-35-ukrainian-drones-as-both-sides-step-up-attacks) > [@](#): > > At least 35 Ukrainian drones were shot down overnight over three regions in south-western [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia), the Russian defence ministry said in a post on the messaging app Telegram. > > A Russian airbase hosting bomber aircraft used in Ukraine was among the targets, according to a Russian Telegram channel critical of the Kremlin. The channel posted short videos of drones flying over low-rise housing in what it claimed was the Russian town of Morozovsk, whose airbase is home to Russia’s 559th bomber aviation regiment. > > Vasily Golubev, the governor of Russia’s Rostov province, also reported “mass drone strikes” near Morozovsk and another town farther west, but did not mention the airbase. Golubev said most the drones were shot down and there were no casualties. He did not comment on any damage. > > Also on Sunday morning, Ukraine’s air force said it shot down 20 Iranian-made Shahed drones launched overnight by Russian troops in southern and western Ukraine, as well as one X-59 cruise missile launched from Russian-occupied Ukraine in the south. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6485 "2023-12-18T18:04:52Z")
I almost posted this in the Zelinskyy’s Zeroes thread. [Russian troops celebrate shooting down a jet before realising it was one of theirs (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-troops-celebrate-shooting-down-a-jet-before-realising-it-was-one-of-theirs/ss-AA1lFylz?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=696f5cd9c7be472483bc8b39e0b44df5&ei=29#image=1) > Russian troops celebrated shooting down a Ukrainian fighter jet – only to realise it was one of their own planes. The Su-25 jet is suspected to have been shot down by a Buk-M3 surface to air missile system – and initial Russian reports celebrated hitting a Ukrainian plane ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6486 "2023-12-19T01:43:04Z")
> **[Putin’s choice: The war or his people](https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/putin-s-choice-the-war-or-his-people-20231219-p5esdd.html?btis)** > > Russia’s economy is starting to buckle as the West tightens its grip, and there’s no relief in sight. Vladimir Putin may have a decision to make. The Bank of Russia lifted its policy rate to a staggering 16 per cent last Friday in response to inflation running at a rate of about 7.5 per cent. Next year it is budgeting to spend about $160 billion on its military, more than three times its defence budget before the invasion of Ukraine and, at about 6 per cent of GDP, nearly 40 per cent of the government’s entire budgeted expenditures. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6487 "2023-12-19T02:03:49Z")
Wasn’t pouring so much of their budget into defense one big reason the USSR collapsed? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6488 "2023-12-19T02:14:22Z")
As I recall, Reagan kept on about the ‘Star Wars’ impenetrable shield, which caused the Soviet Union to spend gajillions of monies to counteract it… And then it turned out ‘Star Wars’ was a bluff. The USSR collapsed shortly afterward. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6489 "2023-12-19T02:19:03Z")
So now not only is Russia pouring huge sums into its armed forces, this time around it’s also burning through large numbers of military-elegible men and materiel stockpiles while being hobbled by economic sanctions, having to sell its oil and gas at fire sale prices to the few buyers willing to ignore the sanctions. Way to go, Supreme Leader Putin! ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6490 "2023-12-19T06:15:06Z")
> **very off topic post hideen** > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > As I recall, Reagan kept on about the ‘Star Wars’ impenetrable shield, which caused the Soviet Union to spend gajillions of monies to counteract it… And then it turned out ‘Star Wars’ was a bluff. The USSR collapsed shortly afterward. > > A bit off topic, but that is a rightwing [myth.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/478941-lets-stop-revising-history-reagan-didnt-win-the-cold-war/). > > > Another common refrain among conservatives is that Reagan simply “outspent” the Soviets. But Soviet defense [spending](https://thebulletin.org/2013/04/shooting-down-the-star-wars-myth/) remained [flat](https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/politics/foreign/reagrus.htm) throughout the 1980s. More significantly, Gorbachev was unalterably [opposed](https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Hand-Untold-Dangerous-Legacy/dp/0307387844) to increasing military spending; he [fought](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/20/AR2009092002189.html) a relentless campaign by the Soviet military-industrial complex to spend exorbitant sums in response to Reagan’s buildup. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6491 "2023-12-19T11:49:35Z")
Very off topic, don’t do this again in this thread. **Moderating** Hidden. To all, no more on the USSR remembrances. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6492 "2023-12-19T14:17:57Z")
Interesting and scary profile of a Ukrainian traitor and collaborator. Saldo the former 3 term mayor of the southern city of Kherson was under criminal investigation for criminal gang activities before the war. Putim made him of ruler of the occupied territory. He’s created quite a ruthless fifedom there. He has an important Telegram propaganda channel. Sometime the 💩 rises to the top. The Guardian investigation is pretty impressive considering that this is inside Russian occupied territory. It’s even more relevant today because the stalemate could make this a permanent life for Ukrainians. Link [Mr Fifty Percent: the former Ukraine mayor doing Putin’s work in Kherson | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/19/mr-fifty-percent-the-former-ukraine-mayor-doing-putins-work-in-kherson) > [@](#): > > A Guardian investigation into Saldo’s regime reveals how, under the banner of Russian nationalism, the invaders and their collaborators appear to be using terror tactics to construct on Ukrainian soil an extension of the gangster state Putin has built at home, where cronies grow rich and dissent is punished. > > With the frontline in the war looking deadlocked – and with influential [westerners](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-welcomes-elon-musk-proposal-ukraine-settlement-denounced-by-kyiv-2022-10-04/) calling on Ukraine to surrender occupied lands to Putin as the price of peace – it is a regime under which millions of Ukrainians may be condemned to live for years. > > Few dare speak openly of life under Saldo. “It’s like Stalin’s regime,” says Serhiy Khlan, a former Kherson councillor who now lives in Kyiv. He reports what his contacts still in occupied territory tell him. “If we are all sitting and telling stories and someone says, ‘Fuck Russia!’ someone will call and tell the Russians. It’s a system of traitors, of whispering, of denunciation.” > > An account by a person deep inside occupied Kherson reached by the Guardian through an intermediary depicts a similar picture of extreme repression. Yuri – not their real name – says the regime continues to carry out the “filtration” that began after the invasion. This, says Yuri, involves “searches at key transportation crossroads, constant raids, and phone checks”. > > The only phone networks available are Russian ones, known to be equipped with devices that allow the authorities to listen in. The intensity of arrests has decreased, Yuri says, but the occupation’s security services sometimes fabricate cases against Ukrainians so they have someone to detain. > > A key part of Saldo’s role, says Yuri, is propaganda. His Telegram feed broadcasts Putin’s fiction that the goal of Russia’s “special military operation” is to free Ukrainians from their fascist overlords. > > A key part of Saldo’s role, says Yuri, is propaganda. His Telegram feed broadcasts Putin’s fiction that the goal of Russia’s “special military operation” is to free Ukrainians from their fascist overlords. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6493 "2023-12-19T14:47:16Z")
The thread ban on @Velocity has been lifted on appeal. Also noted in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6494 "2023-12-20T14:28:20Z")
There have been many reports of Russian atrocities, but actual evidence would be better. Now, will it result in any arrests someday? Who can say? He also says he knows the story behind the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in 2014. > **[Man claiming to be former Russian officer offers evidence to ICC about war...](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/man-claiming-former-russian-officer-give-evidence-icc-105773273)** > > A Russian claiming to be a former officer with the Wagner Group has arrived in the Netherlands and says he wants to provide evidence to the International Criminal Court, which is investigating atrocities in the war in Ukraine [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=318) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=320)