# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 322
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6537 "2023-12-23T21:32:10Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You’re not warmongers while trying to repel invaders. Only idiots would accept such a spin. Well, there’s a lot of pro-Putin types out there pressing our government to cut aid to Ukraine already. Whether they’re idiots or bought and paid for I won’t venture a guess. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6538 "2023-12-23T21:34:22Z")
Agreed, but that is a conversation for a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6539 "2023-12-23T21:50:30Z")
(deleted). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6540 "2023-12-23T22:31:35Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > > Putin has been indicating since at least September that he is open to stopping the fighting at the current boundary lines, the Times reported, citing two former senior Russian officials close to the Kremlin and other American and international officials. > > > Putin also “sent out feelers” for a cease-fire last fall, according to the Times, and communicated that he was satisfied with the territory they had taken. I don’t think Ukraine is satisfied with Russia having taken territory, or likely to be willing to accept the current boundary lines. I suspect Putin wants to be able to make noises along the lines of ‘See! We offered a truce! It’s all Ukraine’s fault we’re still fighting!’ ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6541 "2023-12-23T22:55:51Z")
Biden has signed executive orders about sanctions on Russia. Hopefully this puts more uncomfortable pressure on Putin. > **[Biden signs executive order allowing further sanction enforcement on Russia](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-signs-executive-order-allowing-sanction-enforcement-russia/story?id=105872253)** > > President Joe Biden on Friday signed an executive order allowing further sanction enforcement on Russia. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6542 "2023-12-24T02:16:19Z")
Yes, I can see that comment was a step or two beyond the article I’d posted. My apologies; I’ll try to do better at staying on point. Back on point: Are there available sources that are tracking the kinds and scope of sanctions being imposed on Russia, and the degree to which they’ve been effective over time? Assessments of how much farther the Russian economy can be compromised by them, and by the pressures of maintaining the war, before going into a tailspin? Is Putin (as far as anyone outside the Kremlin can really tell) getting a true picture of the state of the economy and his military assets? Obviously Western governments aren’t going to reveal a lot of what their intelligence operations know on those questions, though that knowledge must affect their ongoing policy decisions about further Ukrainian support and Russian sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6543 "2023-12-24T02:49:56Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Still, it’s interesting that this is being allowed to become public; perhaps a PR move, perhaps a sign of desperation? He started a war saying he wanted to rid the world of Ukrainian Nazis. It’s not like he cares how stupid he sounded about comparing Ukraine with a regime that wanted to take over neighboring countries. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6544 "2023-12-24T15:03:48Z")
Surviving and dead crew members were recovered. Can’t ask for better confirmation. Link [Ukraine says it downed three Russian Su-34 warplanes](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67809239) > [@](#): > > Three Su-34 fighter bombers were shot down over Kherson region, the Ukrainian air force announced. > > President Volodymr Zelensky thanked the servicemen who had downed the planes, saying the incident had occurred in war-torn Kherson Region. > > Moscow has not commented on the claims, but influential Russian bloggers have reported losses. > > In his nightly address on Friday, Mr Zelensky said the downing of the planes would make Russian pilots attacking targets in Ukraine aware that “none of them [would] go unpunished”. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6545 "2023-12-24T22:54:29Z")
Ukraine is breaking away from the Russian tradition of celebrating Christmas in January this year. It’s their first one on December 25th. Not breaking news on the war, I know, but topical. I hope the mods don’t mind. > **[Ukraine celebrates first Christmas on 25 December](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67816987)** > > The move to Western calendar is seen as a further shift away from Moscow's influence. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6546 "2023-12-25T02:43:28Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6547 "2023-12-25T02:45:24Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6548 "2023-12-25T03:15:18Z")
Here’s a non-X source on the icebreaker fire. **[Fire briefly breaks out on Russian nuclear-powered icebreaker | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fire-briefly-breaks-out-russian-nuclear-powered-icebreaker-2023-12-24/)** IMO it’s way past time we stop citing X for anything. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6549 "2023-12-25T15:10:07Z")
5 aircraft recently shot down based on the two cited reports. Russia must be changing strategy. They have been keeping their important fighter bombers safe and away from direct combat. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6550 "2023-12-25T15:13:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Russia must be changing strategy. They have been keeping their important fighter bombers safe and away from direct combat. Either that or Ukraine has gotten better with siting/using their Anti-Aircraft systems. They may also be bringing some of the Western systems online. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6551 "2023-12-25T15:21:00Z")
Another symbolic shift towards Europe and Western traditions. The Guardian feed > [@](#): > > “Evil will be defeated,” the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said in a Christmas Eve address to the nation, as the country’s Orthodox Christians prepare to mark Christmas Day on 25 December for the first time. > > “Today, all Ukrainians are together,” the president said in his nightly address. “We all meet Christmas together. On the same date, as one big family, as one nation, as one united country. And today our common prayer will be stronger than ever … And it will resonate today without a time difference of two weeks. Resonate together with [Europe](https://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news) and the world.” > > The government changed the date of Orthodox Christmas from 7 January to 25 December in a symbolic shift away from the Russian Orthodox church. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6552 "2023-12-25T18:29:48Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Either that or Ukraine has gotten better with siting/using their Anti-Aircraft systems. They may also be bringing some of the Western systems online. I’ve seen some speculation that the Dutch F-16’s are already in theatre. F-16’s with AMRAAM’s could explain the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6553 "2023-12-26T15:29:24Z")
Well, it’s time to break out the “you’ve lost another ship” meme from Hunt for Red October. Ukraine has hit Ropucha-class large landing craft _Novocherkassk_, probably with Storm Shadow ALCMs. The ship, a rather large vessel primarily used for logistics (i.e. moving materiel around), was reportedly carrying a full load of Shahed drones. Video shows absolutely immense secondary detonations, and photos of the aftermath that have surfaced on Telegram show a mishapen heap of twisted wreckage, not a ship. Ships of this type have previously been damaged and destroyed, most recently in the attack on Sevastopol that also damaged an attack sub, and back in the opening months of the war in a ballistic missile attack on a couple of ships in Berdyansk which sunk one and damaged another. Long twitter thread detailing what is known: > For those complaining about twitter as a source, as sample of the alternative: > **[Збройні Сили України. Війна з окупантами](https://t.me/zsuwar/40589)** > > ⚡️ВДК «Новочєрркасськ» сьогодні в порту Феодосії. > > Повністю знищений, разом із шахедами на борту. > > До речі, ліворуч, там де вчора стояв буксир МБ-304, теж була пожежа. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6554 "2023-12-26T15:30:04Z")
news is - another RU ship out of comissión: > **[Russia confirms damage to warship in Black Sea](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515)** > > The Ministry of Defence says the ship was struck by Ukrainian aircraft carrying guided missiles. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6555 "2023-12-26T15:32:51Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Ukraine has hit Ropucha-class large landing craft _Novocherkassk_, probably with Storm Shadow ALCMs. As Inspector Clouseau might have said: > ** ~~Butler~~ Port Captain** : But that is a priceless landing ship! > ** ~~Clouseau~~ Zelenskyy** : Naht anymaahr. And thanks for the non-twitter links. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6556 "2023-12-26T15:49:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And thanks for the non-twitter links. Unfortunately, Twitter remains the best place for English-speakers to stay up to date on the war. Telegram is actually the primary source for much of it, but it’s all in Russian and Ukrainian. Unfortunately mainstream media reports like the BBC article above are still publishing Russian official statements with way to much credulity. > [@BBC](#): > > One person was killed in the attack, according to the Russian-installed head of Crimea, Sergei Aksyonov. Several others were reportedly hurt. > > Six buildings were damaged and a small number of people had to be taken to temporary accommodation centres, Mr Aksyonov added. > > The port’s transport operations are said to be functioning as normal after the area was cordoned off, while a fire caused by the attack was contained. The videos in the twitter thread linked above, which are themselves from various telegram channels, show the ship practically vaporized. There’s one video showing a largish chunk of the ship (couple square metres of some sort of plate steel/aluminum) that’s been geolocated to 650m from ship’s location. Windows shattered in a pretty wide radius by the blast wave. It is true that they managed to put out the fire. The port functioning normally? Suuuure. Casualty report probably downplayed by an order of magnitude, possibly two. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=321) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=323)