# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 324
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6577 "2023-12-27T03:59:24Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > For those complaining about twitter as a source I don’t have an X account, and I can’t get that long thread you mention. All I can get is the first post, so it’s not really much help. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6578 "2023-12-27T05:12:55Z")
**Moderating** No more complaints/defenses about Twitter/X in this thread please. Take it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6579 "2023-12-27T10:52:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Eventually the Russian mothers, wives and fatherless children will have to speak out and demand changes. > **[‘We’re tired of being good girls’: Russia’s military wives and mothers...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/25/russia-military-wives-mothers-protest-against-putin-war-ukraine-troops-female)** > > Female-led movements are challenging the official narrative that mobilised troops are required for war against Ukraine What chances they have - that’s another question ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6580 "2023-12-27T12:09:36Z")
It’s unfathomable how Putin’s government gets away with such heavy losses of Russian men. That’s a lot to suppress even for a totalitarian government Think about (don’t discuss) the US public reaction to fighting in Iraq. Losses were actually very low, but IED’s took a toll. There were a lot of wounded coming home. Losses were all over the news. That’s the difference in free Western governments. We can only hope history repeats itself. Losses in the Russo-Japanese War and World War I helped bring down Tsar Nicholas II. Perhaps Putin will suffer a similar grisly fate over Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6581 "2023-12-27T12:25:19Z")
I have occasionally thought that Ukraine should record and circulate a song in Russian called “Mama, Your Boys Aren’t Coming Home”. Spreading fear and despondency is a common war tactic. Back on breaking news: Ukraine claim they still hold part of Maryinka. The [news summary from yesterday](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/27/russia-ukraine-war-maryinka-putin-zelenskiy): > [@](#): > > - The Russian foreign minister, **Sergei Lavrov** , has held talks in Moscow with his Indian counterpart, **Subrahmanyam Jaishankar** , and said progress had been made on plans for **Russia** and **India** to jointly produce military equipment. > - Ukraine’s armed forces commander has said his troops remain in an area of the eastern town of **Maryinka** despite Russia’s assertions that Moscow is in control of the settlement. Capturing Maryinka would amount to Moscow’s most significant battlefield gain since May. > - Russia’s newest howitzers will be deployed “soon” against Ukrainian forces. The head of the state-owned defence conglomerate Rostec, **Sergei Chemezov** , told the RIA news agency that testing of the new self-propelled artillery units, named Coalition-SV, had been completed and mass production has already started, with the first pilot batch to be delivered by the end of this year. > - Russia’s foreign ministry spokesperson, **Maria Zakharova** , has warned that a move by **Japan** to hand over Patriot air defence systems to **Ukraine** , would have “grave consequences” for Russia-Japan ties. > - Russia has lost 355,750 troops in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) since the beginning of its full-scale invasion, according to data published by the general staff of Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday. This includes 790 casualties Russian forces suffered over the past day. The Guardian has been unable to verify the figures. > - One person was killed after Russian forces sent dozens of attack drones over Ukraine in their latest overnight airstrike, Ukrainian authorities said. Ukraine‘s interior ministry also reported another death from overnight shelling of **Kherson**. > - Russian forces shelled the railway station in Kherson as a train was set to evacuate residents, killing one police officer and injuring four people, said Ukraine’s interior minister, **Ihor Klymenko**. I know they’re unverified Ukrainian figures, but 355,750 Russian troops “lost” in less than two years sounds crazy bad. (Also: Russia sent “dozens of attack drones” and only killed one person? That seems a rather poor ROI. Again: source is Ukraine though.) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6582 "2023-12-27T13:33:04Z")
A brave woman. 👏 I fear for her immediate future. She was originally a tv journalist. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > A Russian politician calling for peace in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) has lost her appeal against election officials’ refusal to accept her nomination for the country’s presidential race, the Associated Press reports. > > President [Vladimir Putin](https://www.theguardian.com/world/vladimir-putin) is all but certain to win March’s vote. > > The former regional legislator Yekaterina Duntsova has been promoting her vision of a “humane” [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) “that’s peaceful, friendly and ready to cooperate with everyone on the principle of respect.” > Over the weekend, Russia’s central election commission refused to accept Duntsova’s initial nomination by a group of supporters, citing errors in the paperwork, including spelling. > > On Wednesday, Russia’s supreme court rejected Duntsova’s appeal against the commission’s decision. > > After losing the appeal, Duntsova said she would start working on the creation of her own political party that would stand for “peace, freedom and democracy”. > > She said: > > > We will win the right to live without fear, speak freely and feel confident about the future. [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/would-be-putin-challenger-duntsova-barred-running-election-campaign-team-2023-12-23/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/would-be-putin-challenger-duntsova-barred-running-election-campaign-team-2023-12-23/) ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6583 "2023-12-27T14:00:03Z")
> **not in the breaking news thread pkease.** > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > It’s unfathomable how Putin’s government gets away with such heavy losses of Russian men. > > That raises a factual question (maybe for another thread): > Are the fallen soldiers Russian ? > > Or are they mostly other ethnic groups? > Ethnic groups which Putin doesn’t care about at all; people from the “stans”, the remote areas, who speak Russian only as a second language, who are often muslim ? > As I understand it, most of the ethnic Russian civilians living in Moscow and the other big cities have not been affected by the war at all…Their sons are not being drafted, and their jobs are secure. So they wholly support Putin in his patriotic war to defend Russia from the nazis in NATO. > And thus the war can continue for a long,long time, as long as Putin never drafts residents of Moscow into the canon fodder. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6584 "2023-12-27T15:22:01Z")
Inside story on the missile strike on the Novocherkassk. There is a transcript available under the description. Press **more** [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/zVFWYjqUq-k/maxresdefault.jpg "26 Dec: PHENOMENAL! Ukrainians DESTROY 20% OF RUSSIAN NAVY IN THE BLACK SEA | War in Ukraine") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVFWYjqUq-k) ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6585 "2023-12-27T23:44:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > We can only hope history repeats itself. Losses in the Russo-Japanese War and World War I helped bring down Tsar Nicholas II. But that took 12 years … ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6586 "2023-12-27T23:48:33Z")
> **[US to provide Ukraine with up to $250m in arms and equipment](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/27/us-ukraine-military-aid-weapons?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)** > > Package announced on Wednesday includes air defense munitions and artillery ammunition ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6587 "2023-12-28T13:54:39Z")
Good article that delves into the changing military situation and stalemate. The current loss of Western support. Watching this war, I am stunned at the changes in support since 2022. The delay in giving Ukraine at least equality in Air Power has been critical. It directly contributed to the minefields and trenches that shut down the anticipated counter offensive. All the Western equipment like Bradley’s and Tanks were for naught when they got mired in muddy minefields. The newest aide package is an encouraging beginning for 2024. Link [Thursday briefing: Ukrainians believe they can win, but a breakthrough in 2024 looks remote | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/28/first-edition-ukraine-russia-war-2024) > [@](#): > > When Shaun reflects on the more pessimistic mood that he found in Kyiv on his last visit, he adds some important caveats. “If you look at the scenarios of where the war might have been expected to end up on day one, where we are today would have looked very optimistic,” he said. “There are still plenty of people in Ukraine who believe that they can prevail, given adequate military support from the west.” > > And yet, despite a vaunted counteroffensive earlier this year, almost 20% of Ukraine remains under Russian control. Most analysts see the frontlines as now being entrenched in a way that makes a significant breakthrough hard to imagine. “This is the first time since the first days of the war when there hasn’t been much optimism on the horizon,” Shaun said. > **The mood in Kyiv** > > [Writing from Kyiv in November](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/ukrainian-optimism-fades-at-start-of-another-winter-of-war), Shaun described “a subtle yet unmistakable sense of gloom”. That is despite a surreal sense that the capital is relatively insulated from the worst of the conflict, and certainly a far safer place than it was when Russia first invaded. > > “It reminds me of being there in 2014/15,” when war was raging in the east after [Vladimir Putin annexed Crimea](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/18/putin-confirms-annexation-crimea-ukrainian-soldier-casualty) but Kyiv felt calm, Shaun said. “This is a much larger scale war, and there are sirens going off all the time; [one night during my visit](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/25/russian-mass-drone-attack-injures-five-in-kyiv) 75 kamikaze drones were fired at Kyiv. But the air defence system is so much more powerful now, and it’s a long time since a drone or missile has landed in the centre of the city. You hear two schools of thought: one that a better life at home is exactly what the soldiers on the front are fighting for, and another that this is a very strange disconnect from reality.” > > Either way, the mood has worsened of late. “It started in September, and it has got more pessimistic since. You do hear people say that they don’t believe the war is going to be won in the way they used to believe. Some draw the conclusion that that means you have to fight even harder, and some quietly ask if it means it’s time to think about whether there’s some way to end it.” ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6588 "2023-12-28T14:16:56Z")
Undoubtedly, if the US had provided a significant number of M-1 tanks and Bradleys, and healthy dose of F-16s a year earlier, rather than giving the Russians many months to dig in and lay countless mines throughout occupied territory, the conflict would almost certainly have followed a very different trajectory. Then again, it’s easy to second guess these kinds of things in retrospect. Diplomatically, there were arguably compelling reasons why we slow-walked the introduction of more advanced weapons systems like we did. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6589 "2023-12-28T15:20:55Z")
It seems that important lessons from WWI were forgotten. It’s my understanding that the Germans developed Blitzkrieg in response to the stalemate in WWI. NATO forces today still try to get in fast, strike hard, and get out. Although the Russians screwed that up at the beginning of the Ukrainian invasion. They came in hard and fast with Paratroopers but their infantry & armor units were undersupplied with fuel and ammo. I can’t see a way for infantry to get through the current Ukrainian and Russian fortifications at the front. Perhaps they can go over with air power? 🤔 That’s a question that the best strategists in the Pentagon will need to figure out. Then the Ukrainians have to be trained and equipped to accomplish the mission. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6590 "2023-12-28T15:39:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Russians screwed that up at the beginning of the Ukrainian invasion. They came in hard and fast with Paratroopers but their infantry & armor units were undersupplied with fuel and ammo. They were going for a classic ‘decapitation’ style attack. If the paratroopers had succeeded (and they came close) in their mission as intended, the armor and infantry was pretty much intended to be an _occupation force_. What Russia should have done in the days that immediately followed the failed decapitation will be the subject of military studies for a generation to follow. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6591 "2023-12-28T15:57:34Z")
**Moderating** Pretty far afield for breaking news now. No more on historic tank strategy and the like. 4-5 posts is definitely a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6592 "2023-12-28T20:29:56Z")
Back on topic. One of Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s better thought out statements. Nice summation of 2023 aid and a thank you. > [@](#): > > **Volodymyr Zelenskiy** has thanked the **United States** for its arms package worth up to $250m. > > In his post on social media he wrote: > > > US leadership in the coalition of over 50 countries providing Ukraine with military aid is critical to countering terror and aggression not only in Ukraine but around the world. > > > > Over the course of this year, the US has provided 34 military aid packages worth over $24bn. “Patriots,” “Abrams,” armored vehicles, ATACMS, DPICM, air defense, missiles, artillery rounds, mine clearing capabilities, and other critical equipment. > > > > A historic decision to provide Ukraine with F-16 jets was made. We will always be grateful for all of this support. > > > > To defend freedom and security not only in Ukraine and Europe but also in the United States, we must continue to respond to ongoing Russian aggression in the most forceful and resolute manner possible. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6593 "2023-12-29T14:41:35Z")
It must be retaliation for the lost Russian Ship. The missile count is significantly higher than the 2nd largest attack in Nov 2022. It’s notable that the casualties are low. 18 still impacts a lot of families. Live news link, it may be entirely different in a few hours [https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-67838996?src\_origin=BBCS\_BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-67838996?src_origin=BBCS_BBC) > [@](#): > > Ukraine’s air force commander Mykola Oleshchuk has described the recent raids as “the biggest aerial attack” since Russia’s invasion in February 2022. > > 158 missiles were used, 118 were shot down, and 18 people have been killed. > > **The second biggest Russian air attack** **of the war** was in November 2022, when 96 drones and missiles were fired, according to the Associated Press news agency (AP), citing Ukrainian air force records. > > AP says the second biggest attack of 2023 was on 9 March, when 81 drones and missiles were used. > > However, based on casualty figures so far, this is not the deadliest air attack of the war. > > In April 2022, 61 people were killed when two missiles landed on the main railway station at Kramatorsk, in eastern Ukraine. The station was packed with people trying to travel to safety. > > Russia denied carrying out that attack. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6594 "2023-12-29T14:55:39Z")
[Russia Blocked Deal to Give Ukraine New Weapons](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-blocked-deal-to-give-ukraine-new-weapons/ar-AA1may3l) > During an interview last week with the Ukrainian website Economic Truth, Vladislav Belbas, director of Ukrainian Armored, claimed Moscow had sabotaged a deal in place with an unnamed country for an unspecified number of aircraft to be used in the war against Russia. Speculation is that the unnamed country is Peru, and that the aircraft are MiG-29s. When one of the letters about the deal fell into Russian hands, Russia threatened to kill any projects they had in the country, and the country decided not to transfer the aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6595 "2023-12-29T15:51:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It must be retaliation for the lost Russian Ship. You say this all the time. It’s makes zero sense. Why do you think that anything is “retaliation” for a single act? That’s not how full blown war works. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6596 "2023-12-29T15:54:08Z")
The scale of the attack. Even for Russia this is quite a lot of missile resources to expend in a single night. The targets they choose serves no military purpose and its a failure at forcing the civilian population to demand peace. It also failed to kill a lot of people. Presumably Russia had hoped for hundreds of dead instead of 18. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=323) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=325)