# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 331
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6722 "2024-01-15T16:58:03Z")
Analysis of the shoot down and cockpit recording from Il-22. It’s still unclear if this was Russian friendly fire or Ukrainian. But two important planes were involved. The Il-22 requested an emergency landing and is probably heavily damaged. The youtube transcript is helpful in understanding the video. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/l9DVHwSXi34/maxresdefault.jpg "A-50 Confirmed Shot Down and IL-22M Damaged (Flight Pattern on Satellite Image + Cockpit Recording)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9DVHwSXi34) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6723 "2024-01-15T18:55:07Z")
Thanks for this. I find the videos with commentary very helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6724 "2024-01-15T22:47:24Z")
I missed this a few days ago but Zelenskyy has claimed an unnamed, recently delivered, Western-delivered long range missile system has allowed it to “down” 26 helicopters and 12 planes in a day. He said this in a press conference though no-one else on the Ukrainian side has claimed this. Could it be ATACMs targeting a Russian airfield? > **[Two dozen Russian helicopters downed in one day with 'secret weapon'—Kyiv](https://www.newsweek.com/26-russian-helicopters-downed-secret-weapon-ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-1860250)** > > Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky claimed a mystery defense system it had been supplied had destroyed 26 helicopters in a day. (the headline writers must be from a family of bakers) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6725 "2024-01-15T22:51:46Z")
It could be. IMO there’s no particular reason to think it might be though. A kamikaze drone swarm could accomplish the same sorts of results. ---
**Author:** ![Chelonaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chelonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chelonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2024, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6726 "2024-01-16T09:38:27Z")
I saw this discussed on another forum. Different source, but the conclusion was that Zelensky had spoken about the first days of the war, clickbait sites had taken it out of context because clicks, and then it spread. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6727 "2024-01-17T01:18:25Z")
155 mile (250km) range. France and the UK have stepped up support since the US faltered. Maybe this range can significantly target Russian ammo and missile storage? Guardian daily summary > [@](#): > > Emmanuel Macron said he would go to [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) in February to finalise a bilateral security guarantee under which France would deliver more sophisticated weapons, including long-range cruise missiles. The French president said about 40 **Scalp long-range missiles and hundreds of bombs** would be delivered in the coming weeks. “We cannot let Russia win and we must not do that. > **[What are SCALP missiles, and how can they help Ukraine?](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/11/what-are-frances-scalp-missiles-and-how-can-they-help-ukraine)** > > France to deliver deep-strike missiles to Ukraine as part of increased efforts to help its counteroffensive. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6728 "2024-01-18T02:21:55Z")
- The British foreign secretary, David Cameron told delegates at the World Economic Forum in Davos, that there is a **clear case for frozen Russian assets to be used** to help pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine. - Belgium does not oppose the confiscation of **€280bn worth of frozen Russian central bank assets** , but there needs to be a clear mechanism such as using the assets as collateral for Ukraine, according to the prime minister, Alexander De Croo. - EU chief Ursula von der Leyen said she was **“confident” of getting Hungary to drop its veto on a €50bn ($54bn) aid package for Ukraine** at a summit in two weeks. Hungary’s rightwing prime minister, Viktor Orbán – Russia’s closest EU ally – refused in December to sign off on the assistance. - **Germany has delivered military supplies to Ukraine** , including ammunition for Leopard 1 tanks, armoured personnel carriers, missiles, drones and helmets. It also includes 16 Zetros tanker trucks, eight armoured personnel carriers, 50 mobile satellite terminals, 25 Heidrun reconnaissance drones and 1,840 helmets. - Western companies **supplied Russia with critical components worth $2.9bn** in the first 10 months of 2023, despite sanctions on Moscow, the Ukrainian president’s office said. > **[Russia-Ukraine war at a glance: what we know on day 694](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/russia-ukraine-war-at-a-glance-what-we-know-on-day-694?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)** > > Biden gathers congressional leaders over Ukraine aid; Zelenskiy says Ukrainians must show world they hold the initiative ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6729 "2024-01-19T13:43:07Z")
The tech learning curve will effect all nation’s future wars. The US for example would face a much different battlefield than the one we left in Afghanistan 8 years ago. The adaptation of Drones from surveillance to offensive weapons in Ukraine has been a game changer. The role of a FO (Forward Observers) for artillery is much different. Probably more dangerous if the FO is spotted by drones or his communications are electronically detected. Talking with experienced Ukrainian FO’s would be helpful to NATO. The Russian military is getting a painful lesson in 21 century warfare. Link [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 18, 2024 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-18-2024) > [@](#): > > **The battlespace in Ukraine continues to be the center of the technological offense-defense race between Russian and Ukrainian forces.** Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Deputy Chief Major General Vadym Skibitskyi stated on January 18 that **Russian forces “learn quickly enough” and have completely adapted the Kh-101 air-launched cruise missile compared to the model that Russia used in 2022.[8] Skibitsky stated that new Kh-101s are equipped with an active electronic warfare (EW) system and “thermal traps” to prevent the missiles from emitting trackable heat signatures.**[9] Skibitsky noted that Ukrainian forces need to innovate and adapt in response to Russian adaptations to “prevent the loss of territories.”[10] The GUR assessment of Russian technological innovation in the air domain is consistent with ISW’s previous observations that Russian forces are adapting their methods and means for conducting strikes on Ukraine, and that Ukraine in turn must adapt and innovate with Western support to respond to such strikes.[11] **Moscow Duma Deputy Andrei Medvedev identified similar adaptation-response dynamics in a January 18 post where he discussed the use of drones by both Russian and Ukrainian forces.[12] Medvedev stated that Russia has opted for the mass production of drones, leading to the production of large numbers of drones that lack the technological adaptations needed to compete with Ukrainian drones based on battlefield experience.** Medvedev noted that Ukrainian forces are constantly improving their drones and warned that constant Ukrainian innovation may eventually make Russian mass-produced drones ineffective. Medvedev’s discussion of the importance of constant technological adaptation and innovation on the battlefield emphasizes ISW’s assessment that Russian and Ukrainian forces are engaged in a technological and tactical offense-defense race. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6730 "2024-01-19T22:29:40Z")
> **[ISW Confirms Ukrainian Strike Sank Russian Tarantul Patrol Ship](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/26962)** > > On Dec. 29 and 30 Crimea’s occupation authorities claimed to have repelled strikes by Ukrainian air and sea drones on Sevastopol, but the ship was likely sunk then. From the ISW report linked in the article: > **Ukrainian partisans and satellite imagery confirmed that Ukrainian strikes against occupied Crimea in late December 2023 sank a Russian Project 205P Tarantul patrol boat near Sevastopol.** The Crimean-based “Atesh” Ukrainian partisan group reported on January 18 that it discovered a sunken Tarantul patrol boat in Hrafska Bay, Sevastopol, and satellite imagery of the Atesh-provided coordinates confirms that the corvette sank between December 28 and 31, 2023.[30] Russian and Crimean occupation officials claimed that Russian forces repelled Ukrainian air and naval drone strikes against Sevastopol on December 28 and 30, 2023.[31] This confirmation of a previously unaccounted-for successful Ukrainian strike indicates that Ukraine‘s recent strike campaign against occupied Crimea may have been more successful than has been confirmed thus far by open sources.[32] Ukrainian forces previously conducted a successful strike campaign against Russian Black Sea Fleet (BSF) assets in summer 2023 that forced Russian forces to move ships away from its main base in occupied Sevastopol, Crimea.[33] ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6731 "2024-01-20T12:04:33Z")
**Payback**. Guardian live feed > [@](#): > > **Ukraine is accused by Russia of being behind a drone strike that sparked a huge inferno at an oil depot in western Russia on Friday, the latest in a series of escalating cross-border attacks.** Russian officials and news reports said four oil reservoirs with a total capacity of 6,000 cubic metres (1.6m gallons) were set on fire at the oil refinery after the drone reached Klintsy, a city of 70,000 people located about 60km (40 miles) from the Ukrainian border. Air defences electronically jammed the drone but it dropped its explosive payload on the facility, Bryansk regional Governor Alexander Bogomaz said. There were no casualties, he added. The strike is the second on a Russian oil depot in as many days, part of what Kyiv has called “fair” retaliation for Moscow’s strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure. Separately, a fire tore through Ryazan oil refinery, Russia’s third-largest, on Friday, the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper said, quoting emergency services. The fire at the oil refinery, which lids south-east of Moscow and is controlled by Rosneft, has been put out and there were no injuries, RIA news agency reported. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6732 "2024-01-20T13:22:03Z")
A drone (singular) taking out 4 storage tanks seems to suggest less than robust facility design, or really indifferent firefighting. 6000m3 in 4 tanks is not a lot of liquid on an industrial scale. Assuming equal-sized tanks that’s 1500m3 each. That’s a tank ~10m tall by ~10m diameter. Big enough I would not want it to fall on me, but not big compared to significant oil storage facilities. So a pinprick in terms of oil quantity destroyed, but perhaps significant disruption to whatever else goes on at that facility or whatever else depends on that facility until repairs can be made. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6733 "2024-01-20T17:18:53Z")
How _dare_ those inferior Ukranians attack within Russia’s border? In ~~Soviet Union~~ Russia war come to _you_! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6734 "2024-01-20T18:09:13Z")
Yeah, Russia “accusing” Ukraine of doing these things seems an odd phrasing to me, too. If you didn’t want to be attacked, you shouldn’t have started a war, because that’s what happens in wars. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6735 "2024-01-20T18:58:04Z")
_Cet animal est très méchant - quand on l’attaque, il se défend_ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6736 "2024-01-20T20:30:11Z")
Translation: “This animal is very mean: It defends itself when attacked.” Ironically, a quote from a different Vladimir. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6737 "2024-01-20T21:55:11Z")
Well, I’ve seen it attributed to Voltaire and Clemenceau, but it also appears to be from an old song, which surprised me. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6738 "2024-01-20T22:03:29Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > I missed this a few days ago but Zelenskyy has claimed an unnamed, recently delivered, Western-delivered long range missile system has allowed it to “down” 26 helicopters and 12 planes in a day. He said this in a press conference though no-one else on the Ukrainian side has claimed this I’d be surprised if they had that many targets to shoot at in a day, given Russia has long shown a tremendous unwillingness to use many aircraft at all at the front. This sounds like an unvetted claim he repeated without any confirmation. Russia just doesn’t have the assets for a full court press in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6739 "2024-01-20T22:25:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Russia just doesn’t have the assets for a full court press in the air. They might once. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6740 "2024-01-20T23:01:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’d be surprised if they had that many targets to shoot at in a day, given Russia has long shown a tremendous unwillingness to use many aircraft at all at the front. This sounds like an unvetted claim he repeated without any confirmation. > > Russia just doesn’t have the assets for a full court press in the air. As mentioned upthread, the current understanding is that was a quote of Zelenskyy from 2 years ago shortly after the start of the war. which quote somehow got re-injected into the social mediasphere and was duly spread all new and fresh by the bot brigade. Nobody in the know thinks anything like that happened recently. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/6741 "2024-01-21T14:08:30Z")
Wouldn’t there potentially be Ukrainian civilians at that market? Russia quickly gave nimber of casualties. Another attack on Russian resouces in response to their attacks in Ukraine. > **[Donetsk: Deadly blast hits market in Russia-held Ukraine city, officials say](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68047144)** > > A Moscow-installed official blames Ukraine for the attack which he says killed 25 people and injured 20. > **[Ukraine drones hit St Petersburg gas terminal in Russia](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68046347)** > > An official in Kyiv tells the BBC the "special operation" is an economic blow to Russia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=330) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=332)