# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 351
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7131 "2024-04-21T16:53:08Z")
The most urgently needed item from what I’ve seen is not “advanced new weapon systems.” It’s good old fashioned artillery rounds. I know it could take months to get online, but maybe someone should start setting up a manufacturing plant for those 105 and 155mm rounds. Seems like a good future investment. Especially since I expect that even after the war, there will be a lot of international customers for those rounds. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7132 "2024-04-21T16:56:42Z")
One of our plants, I think in Pennsylvania has stepped up production by a lot. This should be googable. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7133 "2024-04-21T17:26:59Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > The most urgently needed item from what I’ve seen is not “advanced new weapon systems.” It’s good old fashioned artillery rounds. I know it could take months to get online, but maybe someone should start setting up a manufacturing plant for those 105 and 155mm rounds. Seems like a good future investment. Especially since I expect that even after the war, there will be a lot of international customers for those rounds. Scranton Army Ammunition Plant has been in full expanded swing for close to a year now. That’s the metal parts (the shell). More than doubled to date. Iowa AAP does the load, assemble and pack (melt pour the HE, paint/mark, palletize and ship). A second metal parts plant is nearing operation in Texas. Propellant charges come out of Radford AAP. Fuzes and primers from other manufacturers. Rounds have been procured from South Korea and eastern Europe. And there are 4 million rounds of 155mm DPICM rounds that could be released if agreeable to Ukraine. The grenades in those rounds have a higher than acceptable dud rate adding to the UXO problem in Ukraine but to blunt a Russian offensive, they would be decisive. ATACMS missiles are becoming available in increasing numbers (better to shoot than expire - shelf life). Why the hell we haven’t shipped over 150 - 200 more M109 SP howitzers is unfathomable. Their sole purpose was an artillery war in Europe, there’s no Pacific theater use. PATRIOT missile production is in full swing. Javelin missile production is ramped up. Just releasing the funding was the key. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7134 "2024-04-21T21:47:33Z")
So it IS taking months to come online, but it’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7135 "2024-04-22T18:06:38Z")
Ukraine hit another Russian ship. They claim damage that will keep it from being operational. Not sure why this one was targeted. > ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7136 "2024-04-22T20:50:28Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > Not sure why this one was targeted. Opportunity? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7137 "2024-04-22T20:54:49Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > [https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1782060240655077557](https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1782060240655077557) This is a little sad. It was commissioned in 1915. To me, that makes it ‘historic’. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7138 "2024-04-22T23:26:17Z")
Getting ready to hit the bridge in Crimea? Maybe just clearing the area? Maybe just for the fun of it! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7139 "2024-04-22T23:42:29Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > Not sure why this one was targeted. It’s a do-all Navy tow truck. something they seem to need of late. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7140 "2024-04-23T00:50:55Z")
> Its purpose is deep-sea work, raising submarines and sunken cargo. The Russians have had a fair number of sunken ships in the past two years … ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7141 "2024-04-23T11:44:47Z")
Nice: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL1TNPzXIAAQPUm?format=jpg&name=medium) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL1TNPzXIAAQPUm?format=jpg&name=medium) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7142 "2024-04-23T12:16:05Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > Not sure why this one was targeted. Seems to me, part of the answer is here: > Kommuna is the only rescue vessel of that class on the Black Sea. Its purpose is deep-sea work, raising submarines and sunken cargo. If any of the other ships that have been hit lately are potentially recoverable, getting rid of this ship just made those recovery efforts more difficult. It’s the same reason they’ve targeted drydocks and the like; put a ship out of commission, and **keep** it out of commission. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7143 "2024-04-23T12:34:09Z")
Targeting a large and ancient salvage ship is totally a legit war goal. The vessel is on active duty and required money, manpower and materiel to keep it in operation. It fulfilled a useful function for the Russian navy and damaging it results either in the loss and expenditure of additional Russian military resources needed to restore it to usable condition, or alternatively, the loss of the vessel’s capabilities to aid in their war effort. It’s yet another form of attrition intended to add a little more friction to the Russian war machine. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7144 "2024-04-23T14:24:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It was commissioned in 1915. To me, that makes it ‘historic’. Has anyone told the Tsar he lost another ship? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7145 "2024-04-23T15:10:32Z")
No, but Anastasia screamed in vain. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7146 "2024-04-23T16:21:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > showing Ukrainians that, even belatedly, America is with them. America’s SOP for European wars. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7147 "2024-04-24T20:17:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is it trying to camouflage itself as a shed? It kinda looks like that Great War german tank??? 🤪 This is interesting- [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/us-long-range-missiles-ukraine-00154110](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/us-long-range-missiles-ukraine-00154110) _The Biden administration last month secretly shipped long-range missiles to Ukraine for the first time in the two-year war — and Kyiv has already used the weapon twice to strike deep behind Russian lines._ _In March, the U.S. quietly approved the transfer of a number of Army Tactical Missile Systems with a range of nearly 200 miles, said a senior Biden administration official and two U.S. officials, allowing President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s forces to put at risk more Russian targets inside Ukrainian sovereign territory._ ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7148 "2024-04-24T22:13:02Z")
The new Pentagon aid package is the 56th round tranche of equipment provided from the Defense Department to Ukraine under Presidential Drawdown Authority, which means it is coming from existing U.S. stocks. The capabilities in this announcement include: - RIM-7 and AIM-9M missiles for air defense; - Stinger anti-aircraft missiles; - Small arms and additional rounds of small arms ammunition, including .50 caliber rounds to counter Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS); - Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS); - 155mm artillery rounds, including High Explosive and Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions rounds; - 105mm artillery rounds; - 60mm mortar rounds; - Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles; - Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs); - High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs); - Logistics support vehicles; - Tactical vehicles to tow and haul equipment; - Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles; - Javelin and AT-4 anti-armor systems; - Precision aerial munitions; - Airfield support equipment; - Anti-armor mines; - Claymore anti-personnel munitions; - Demolitions munitions for obstacle clearing; and - Night vision devices; and - Spare parts, field equipment, training munitions, maintenance, and other ancillary equipment. Most have been pre-positioned in Europe for quick response. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7149 "2024-04-25T16:29:38Z")
Well shit, I guess the Ukrainians do have their limits. Hopefully the new US Aid will restore morale. The 47th Mechanized Brigade has been fighting for nearly a year without a break. They pulled back and the other unit refused to step up and hold the line. I think the lack of ammunition and artillery shells must be a factor. > **[A Ukrainian Brigade Disappeared, And A Russian Brigade Almost Broke Through:...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/23/a-ukrainian-brigade-disappeared-and-a-russian-brigade-almost-broke-through-how-the-battle-for-ocheretyne-upended-the-war-in-ukraine-this-weekend/?sh=a2539df49017)** > > The 47th Mechanized Brigade is one of the Ukrainian army’s best brigades. But being best isn't good enough when adjacent brigades just disappear from the front line. > [@](#): > > The 47th Mechanized Brigade has been fighting for nearly a year without a break. Its soldiers are tired; its battalions are running low on their best M-2 Bradley fighting vehicles and M-1 Abrams tanks. The brigade needs a break—and it almost got one this week. > > But that planned break was an invitation for the Russian field armies around the ruins of Avdiivka—an opportunity to inflict on the Ukrainians the kind of major defeat the _Ukrainians_ inflicted on the _Russians_ farther north around the city of Kharkiv in late 2022. > > As the 47th Mechanized Brigade was pulling back from the front line east of the village of Ocheretyne this weekend, the Russians attacked—and very nearly broke through Ukrainian lines into the 20-mile-wide ribbon of undefended terrain separating the free city of Pokrovsk from the front line. > > The Ukrainian army’s 115th Mechanized Brigade was supposed to take the 47th Mechanized Brigade’s place along the front line. But something went wrong. [According to](https://twitter.com/Schizointel/status/1782213326824472616) Mykola Melnyk, the famed 47th Mechanized Brigade company commander [who lost a leg](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/11/18/after-losing-a-leg-one-ukrainian-army-officer-is-mad-at-his-commanders-but-hes-not-mad-at-his-american-made-m-2-fighting-vehicle/?sh=3f8e38806748) during the summer counteroffensive, “certain units just fucked off.” > > Russian scouts and drone operators, surveilling positions once held by the battle-hardened 47th Mechanized Brigade, expected to find fresh troops from the 115th Mechanized Brigade in the same trenches. Instead, they found … no one. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/7150 "2024-04-27T13:32:57Z")
I thought the brigade was wiped out during the siege of Mariupol. It’s good they’ve recovered with new recruits. > **[Elite force bucks trend of Ukrainian losses on eastern front](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/27/elite-force-bucks-trend-of-ukrainian-losses-on-eastern-front)** > > The Azov brigade, which leaders say has a culture of ‘mutual respect’, is tasked with repelling relentless Russian attacks as the invaders make most of artillery mismatch > [@](#): > > _Photo caption_ > The Azov brigade is made up of about 5,000 fighters, and says it has a waiting list for recruits. Photograph: Julia Kochetova/The Guardian > > In the woods around Lyman there is a different perspective, however. While a handful of brigades have struggled in the latest phase of fighting, Azov says it has defeated the Russian attackers in the Serebryansky forest. The 5,000-plus strong brigade has shed any far-right associations, relentlessly emphasised in Russian pre-invasion propaganda, and is one of the military’s elite forces, comprised entirely of volunteers. Members say there is a waiting list for recruits, allowing it to pick and choose. > > “Tavr” Bohdan Krotevych, Azov’s chief of staff, 31, argues that high morale, unit cohesion and a willingness to allow all ranks to be heard, not necessarily shown elsewhere, was a key to success – contrasting the style with the traditional “old fart” hierarchical model of Soviet command. A culture of “mutual respect” is intended to ensure soldiers’ lives are not wasted and the commander emphasises the young age profile of the brigade, with an average age “on the south side of 35”, adding if you are young “you have attitude, you are competitive, you have stuff to prove”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=350) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=352)