# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/801 "2022-11-29T01:43:27Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > how does the missile know which end of the laser-beam to attack? … so how do you blow up the building and not the car 100m away pointing the laser A laser is a tiny beam of light that is very straight. None of the photons will hit the missile’s sensor because they are going straight from the laser to the building just like strings. The missile couldn’t see the source of the laser unless it was looking right at it. But when the laser light hits the building, the neatly-organized photons scatter in all directions. The missile’s sensor will be bathed in the laser’s photons which are now bouncing in all directions off the building. You can see this same effect with a laser pointer. Point it at a wall and the light is easy to see from all directions, but the tip of the pointer will hardly be lit up at all. (don’t point the laser light into your eye!) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/802 "2022-11-29T01:51:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Watching Denys channel. Ukraine is bracing for a massive rocket attack. They’re seeing a lot of activity at Russian air bases. > > It’s a horrible situation. What it is, is a crime against humanity. They are bombing civilians for no reason whatsoever except that “we can”. There is no purpose to it except to destroy and to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/803 "2022-11-29T02:01:49Z")
thx for the good laser information! ignorance fought ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/804 "2022-11-29T02:11:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What it is, is a crime against humanity Exactly. I’m in favor of the international criminal court holding trials in absentia for those responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/805 "2022-11-29T03:04:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What it is, is a crime against humanity. They are bombing civilians for no reason whatsoever except that “we can”. There is no purpose to it except to destroy and to kill. Well, that’s not exactly true. Their stated reason is to make living conditions bad enough that the Ukrainian population will demand peace talks so they can have heat and light again. That strategic bombing has never actually achieved this goal - not in the Battle of Britain or the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden, not in Korea, not in Vietnam or a myriad of other smaller conflicts - has apparently not occurred to them. There is an additional legitimate military goal - the trains which form the basis of most of Ukrainian military logistics are largely electric, and making it harder to keep them running is reasonable military objective. War is really fucking ugly, and the people who suffer most from it are very rarely the people who wage it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/806 "2022-11-29T10:53:11Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > There is an additional legitimate military goal - the trains which form the basis of most of Ukrainian military logistics are largely electric, and making it harder to keep them running is reasonable military objective. The rails that run electric trains can also run diesels. Saw a video recently of Ukrainians making museum-piece steam engines operational again. The world ran before we had electricity. Apparently, the Ukrainians want the absence of Russians sufficiently to put up with the absence of electricity. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/807 "2022-11-29T12:53:11Z")
Ukraine still controls Bakhmut. Apparently it’s WWI trench warfare. I saw a photo of nothing but mud and dead, splintered trees. A eerie and apocalyptic scene. ISW [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 28 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-28) > [@](#): > > **Key Takeaways** > > - **The Russian-claimed capture of several small villages around Bakhmut on November 27 and 28 does not portend an imminent Russian encirclement of Bakhmut.** > - **Recent Russian force deployments to Belarus in November 2022 are likely part of a Russian effort to augment Russian training capacity and conduct an information operation** > - **Russian milbloggers widely criticized the Russian Ministry of Defense’s (MoD) decision to place severe customs limits on the import of dual-use goods, indicating a continued and pervasive discontent with the Russian MoD’s conduct of the war in Ukraine.** > - **Russian forces are likely preparing to launch a new wave of missile strikes across Ukraine in the coming week, but such preparations are likely intended to sustain the recent pace of strikes rather than increase it.** > - **Russian forces continued efforts to defend against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations around Svatove as Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops continued counteroffensive west of Kreminna.** > - **Russian forces made incremental gains south of Bakhmut.** ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/808 "2022-11-29T13:17:10Z")
Of course, but it makes things more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/809 "2022-11-29T13:37:17Z")
I’ve heard a few observers remark about the likelihood of a Russian morale collapse. I am of the opinion that a critical mass of Russians are still fighting quite hard and that no collapse is imminent. That said, when morale collapses do occur they often do so quite rapidly as a sort of cascade effect takes place, and observers say ‘wow, didn’t see that coming’. We saw this most recently in Afghanistan and earlier in Desert Storm. Is there greater potential for a morale collapse now that Russian ranks are beginning to swell with ill-equipped and ill-trained mobiks and the cold of winter is starting to bite, or is this wishful thinking? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/810 "2022-11-29T18:29:14Z")
This needs to happen. It’s encouraging the Ukrainians have already trained in NATO tanks. Providing tanks has been planned for awhile. Guardian feed > [@](#): > > **Nato powers must take the political decision to send modern battle tanks to Ukraine to give them a military edge against invading Russian forces during the winter months, Lithuania’s foreign minister said on Tuesday.** > > “I’ve talked to a number of military experts and the answer I’m hearing is that if we provided tanks by this winter, let’s say January, it could make a difference,” Reuters reports Lithuanian foreign minister **Gabrielius Landsbergis** told reporters during a Nato foreign ministers’ gathering in Bucharest, a day after a visit to the Ukrainian capital Kyiv with several other ministers. > > He said Ukrainian authorities had told him that they had “pilots” able to operate Nato battle tanks, suggesting some had already undergone commensurate training on alliance territory. > > “It’s a political decision because from a military perspective during the winter when the frontline is stabilising, if an additional jolt is needed, then this could be achieved by providing extra battle tanks,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/811 "2022-11-29T19:06:21Z")
Lots of Leopard 2 tanks around in Hungary, Poland, Norway etc. in addition to Germany. I’m sure the Ukrainians would love those. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/812 "2022-11-29T19:23:15Z")
Without air support wouldn’t Ukrainian tanks be targeted just as easily as the Russian tanks? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/813 "2022-11-29T19:25:52Z")
Somebody bombed a Central African Republic military base manned by Wagner Group mercenaries. > **[Russian Base Bombed in Central African Republic, Gov’t Says](https://www.thedailybeast.com/unknown-aircraft-bombs-suspected-wagner-base-in-central-african-republic)** > > “A plane bombed the Russians’ base at 2:50 in the morning.” ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/814 "2022-11-29T22:57:38Z")
"Another Russian billionaire has died under mysterious circumstances. After days of questions from the international press, the Russian government on Monday confirmed the death of Forex Club founder Vyacheslav Taran in a helicopter crash last week near his home in southeastern France." Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. 17th or so is just bad luck. > **[Billionaire with "enemies in Russia" dies in mysterious helicopter crash](https://www.newsweek.com/billionaire-enemies-russia-dies-mysterious-helicopter-crash-1763199)** > > More than a dozen Russian businessmen have died this year, some under mysterious circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/815 "2022-11-29T23:11:42Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > I assume the problem is not so much the $200 drone, but the $100.000,- missile that might not explode where you want it to OK, so instead of one cheap drone, you send a dozen. They probably won’t all get shot down, you get to re-use any that don’t, and even a dozen of them is still cheap compared to the cost of the missile they’re guiding. Of course, the missiles only need laser spotting for precision targeting. They have other entirely-onboard guidance systems, too, and while it’s nice to have centimeter precision, usually in war a munition that misses by 10 or 20 meters still has a useful effect. So it’s not the end of the world even if all of your targeting drones are shot down. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/816 "2022-11-30T00:34:08Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Somebody bombed a Central African Republic military base manned by Wagner Group mercenaries. Maybe it’s just a coincidence but many of Chad’s military pilots are Ukrainian mercenaries. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/817 "2022-11-30T00:39:45Z")
Yes, pure coincidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/818 "2022-11-30T10:44:00Z")
Another Russian oil depot on fire. Video of the fire is impressive. No one claims responsibility. 😉 > **[Ukraine unleashes blazing inferno in drone attack on Russian oil depot](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1703374/drone-attack-russian-oil-depot-ukraine)** > > Dramatic pictures show three tanks holding thousands of tonnes of fuel in Bryansk engulfed in flames. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/819 "2022-11-30T13:06:37Z")
That would take a bit of doing and resources. If it was a pro-Ukraine action, good on 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/820 "2022-11-30T13:21:49Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > the Russian government on Monday confirmed the death of Forex Club founder Vyacheslav Taran in a helicopter crash last week near his home in southeastern France. Why exactly do we need confirmation from the Russian government for something that happened in France? I am confuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=42)