# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/821 "2022-11-30T15:07:36Z")
Mail bomb exploded in the Ukraine embassy in Madrid. > **[Explosion at Ukraine embassy in Madrid injures one person, officials say | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/30/europe/madrid-ukraine-embassy-explosion-intl)** > > An explosion occurred Wednesday at Ukraine's embassy in Madrid, injuring one Ukrainian employee who was handling a letter addressed to the country's ambassador to Spain, officials said. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/822 "2022-11-30T15:19:51Z")
Here’s an op-ed that expresses an opinion on why trying to negotiate for peace is a bad idea. > **[Russia, Ukraine can’t negotiate their way out of war. One side has to lose |...](https://amp.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article269357877.html)** > > The choice is between a bloody war and an equally bloody peace, Johns Hopkins professor says. I agree with his opinion. It seems obvious to me that his thoughts on the matter are correct, which is why I don’t get where the people wanting Ukraine to negotiate are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/823 "2022-11-30T15:28:36Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > That strategic bombing has never actually achieved this goal - not in the Battle of Britain or the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden, not in Korea, not in Vietnam or a myriad of other smaller conflicts - has apparently not occurred to them. Strategic bombing of Japan, specifically firebombing, did actually contribute to the end of the war. It didn’t cause the Japanese to surrender but it was a significant factor in the decision to accept defeat without a fight on their home islands. Of course, to get strategic bombing to win wars, you also have to win them on the ground, which is what the Russians can’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/824 "2022-11-30T15:32:40Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I don’t get where the people wanting Ukraine to negotiate are coming from. They’re coming from a mindset of obeying Putin for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/825 "2022-11-30T18:04:24Z")
I’d say he summed up the situation quite incisively. He’s right, you know. Anyone who says differently is fooling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/826 "2022-11-30T18:13:22Z")
A previous suggestion that I agree with is that Ukraine should be _willing_ to come to the table, but on inflexible terms such as all Russian forces out, all captured land returned, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/827 "2022-11-30T18:18:11Z")
Besides exposing its vaunted military as a paper tiger, Russia has firmly lodged itself into the pariah state niche. What its leaders say, or even sign to on paper is not to be trusted. Even if Putin were to succumb to kinetic lead poisoning _today_, there is no guarantee, no indication even, that his successor will not do the same. In a way, it’s like what I complained about T\*\*\*\* back in 2018. Thanks to him any reasonable diplomat will be telling those who do not come after to not trust the US to keep any agreements. Sure he’ll be gone in four (as it turned out) or eight years, but what’s to prevent the American voter from putting another buffoon in the White House? It will be thus unto the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/828 "2022-11-30T18:30:38Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > if Putin were to succumb to kinetic lead poisoning _today_ more likely Toxic Sidewalk Syndrome ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/829 "2022-11-30T18:46:06Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Why exactly do we need confirmation from the Russian government for something that happened in France? I am confuse. They were already on the scene when it happened? Give ‘em a break, they’re just trying to help! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/830 "2022-11-30T18:48:22Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > more likely Toxic Sidewalk Syndrome I dunno – how tall is the Kremlin? And that’s not to say he’s smart enough to stick to ground floors. If you strike a king, kill him and all that. Nothing gets the job done like a double tap. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/831 "2022-11-30T19:06:56Z")
Putin’s war bas long tentacles. > **[Ukraine war: Moldova braces for blackouts](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63792499)** > > Residents say they are already struggling to cope with soaring energy prices and inflation. > [@](#): > > Because of the way power infrastructure was built in Soviet times, Moldova is uniquely exposed to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. > > Not only has it historically been almost entirely dependent on cheap Russian gas imports, but nearly all its power lines flow through Ukraine. > > That is why strikes on Ukraine’s power grid have been leading to blackouts across Moldova, with warnings of more outages in the coming days. > > The deputy prime minister has accused Russia of conducting “hybrid warfare” against his country, which is almost uniquely impacted by the Russian invasion to Moldova’s east. “It’s simple,” says Andrei Spinu. “They don’t want Moldova to follow the European path.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/832 "2022-11-30T19:07:05Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Nothing gets the job done like a double tap. If you strike at the king, you’re likely to have the shakes. Better resort to the Mozambique Drill instead. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/833 "2022-11-30T19:12:35Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > how tall is the Kremlin? Looking at what a map program calls Moscow Kremlin, the Kremlin itself is difficult to suss. It appears that the office type structures are maybe 3 stories at most. But there is lots of minor phallic architecture that rises a bit higher – how poetic would it be for him to be taking in the view from one of the spires of St. Basil’s. Also, the Moskva flows along the southern edge. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/834 "2022-11-30T20:33:45Z")
It’s easy to forgot the sacrifices made for freedom. > ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/835 "2022-11-30T22:51:34Z")
I thought Ukraine soldiers were getting full NATO infantry training in the UK? According to CNN they aren’t. Why in the hell does training for Ukraine’s soldiers require _agency review_? We’re already providing weapons and hardware. Infantry training isn’t an escalation. Imho [https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/30/politics/us-military-expanding-training-ukraine/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/30/politics/us-military-expanding-training-ukraine/index.html) > [@](#): > > Under the new program, the US would begin training much larger groups of Ukrainian soldiers in more sophisticated battlefield tactics, including how to coordinate infantry maneuvers with artillery support – “much more intense and comprehensive” training than Ukraine has been receiving in Poland or the UK, according to one source briefed on the proposal. > > The proposal, which was made at the behest of Ukraine, is still under interagency review by the administration. News of its existence comes more than nine months into [Russia’s invasion of Ukraine](https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-11-30-22/index.html) and as the onset of winter is [expected to slow military operations](https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-11-30-22/h_8061a30b50318fd895a9acbc6ebb8464) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/836 "2022-11-30T23:05:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Why in the hell does training for Ukraine’s soldiers require _agency review_? The review might not be about, “Should we increase training for Ukrainian soldiers?” It might be, “Is this plan the best way to train more Ukrainian soldiers? Or is there another plan that would be a better way to train more Ukrainian soldiers?” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/837 "2022-11-30T23:09:51Z")
I see that point. Ukraine’s officers are getting battle experience. They aren’t novices any more. But there’s always a need for fresh replacements. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/838 "2022-11-30T23:11:55Z")
There is also the question of “Can we train them up quickly _without_ our Top of the Line, Semi-Secret equipment that we aren’t giving them, no way no how.” Along with the simple questions, like Where, and Who, and How, and What do we have in the way of Ukrainian-speaking instructors? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/839 "2022-11-30T23:35:52Z")
It’s hard to imagine the US military fighting without close air support. Ukraine doesn’t have that same capability. They can’t risk the aircraft that’s still flying. That would change infantry training for Ukraine. They call in artillery strikes. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/840 "2022-12-01T00:05:13Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Also, the Moskva flows along the southern edge. IIRC, that didn’t faze Rasputin\* a bit, or was that in St. Petersburg? \*Hey! Just noticed the similarity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=43)