# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1023 "2022-12-07T00:00:13Z")
If the war continues on its current trajectory, eventually Russia will no longer have the means of killing Ukrainians, simply by virtue of running out of munitions. I think that, if the worst were to come to pass, Ukraine is tough enough to survive to that point. Though obviously that’s not the win that they want. So they’re hastening the end, and decreasing their suffering, by destroying as many Russian munitions as they can before they’re used. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1024 "2022-12-07T11:42:07Z")
is it possible that this isn’t Ukraine doing it? Someone else might be sneaking in attacks as well, since they might not be able to tell the origin of the attacks . Or has the West been sending cyber experts to help UKR do these sorts of things? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1025 "2022-12-07T11:50:19Z")
Either way, it’s in their best interest to pretend Ukraine **is** the one doing it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1026 "2022-12-07T14:43:32Z")
The award is well deserved. > **[Volodymyr Zelensky is Time Magazine's 2022 Person of the Year](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-63890775)** > > The nomination of Ukraine's president is "the most clear-cut in memory", the magazine's editor says. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1027 "2022-12-07T15:07:37Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > And kudos to the brave person who may have painted the targets for them! This is what I’m most curious about. What sort of terminal guidance system is in place? Do they operate via remote control with a continuous (or at least final stage) television feed, or are they capable of flying pre-programmed flight paths with sufficiently precise guidance to hit within a hundred meters or so of a given point after flying 800 kilometers? Or is it remote control with retrofitted GPS to keep the remote operator appraised of position only? Laser guidance seems least likely because I can’t imagine the original drones were designed with that capability, and retrofitting such a form of terminal guidance seems, well… I don’t know how one would go about it, but my WAG would be it’s not easily done, if it’s even possible at all. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1028 "2022-12-07T15:18:07Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I don’t know how one would go about it, but my WAG would be it’s not easily done, if it’s even possible at all. For gravity bombs, there is a bolt-on package called [JDAM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition). > The **Joint Direct Attack Munition** ( **JDAM** ) is a guidance kit that converts [unguided bombs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unguided_bomb), or “dumb bombs”, into all-weather [precision-guided munitions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision-guided_munitions)… > > The JDAM is not a stand-alone weapon; rather it is a “bolt-on” guidance package that converts unguided gravity bombs into precision-guided munitions (PGMs). The key components of the system consist of a tail section with aerodynamic control surfaces, a (body) [strake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strake_(aeronautics)) kit, and a combined [inertial guidance system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_guidance_system) and [GPS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System) guidance control unit. I recall Ukraine being quite innovative with their weaponry and tactics. They laughed at Russian drones that used off-the-shelf components – something not expected from a superpower. I have no idea how Ukraine is guiding their cruise missiles; but they’ve shown themselves to be quite resourceful, and I have no doubt they’d be able to improve the accuracy of Soviet-era weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1029 "2022-12-07T15:26:53Z")
Necessity is a mother. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1030 "2022-12-07T15:52:33Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Or has the West been sending cyber experts to help UKR do these sorts of things? At the very least, the West has been giving Ukraine very specific target information, based on current satellite imagery. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1031 "2022-12-07T16:21:57Z")
If there’s one thing that Ukraine has proved extraordinarily adept at doing in this conflict it’s been inflicting strategic embarrassments on Russia. Penetrating hundreds of kilometers into Russian airspace and striking three of their strategic bomber bases is only the most recent humiliation. How many others have there been? Forcing Russians to retreat from Kyiv, sinking the flagship of the Black Sea fleet, recapturing virtually the entire Kharkiv oblast in a week while Russians slog for months to take Sevrodonetsk, attacking the Kerch Bridge, forcing Russians to withdraw from the capital of the oblast they annexed a few weeks earlier…I’m sure there are others I’m forgetting. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1033 "2022-12-07T16:51:29Z")
Apparently there was an old joke that seems fitting for the moment: after the Mattias Rust incident, Gorbachev ordered Russian Air Defense personnel to start drinking more vodka because at least tipping a glass would force them to look up from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1034 "2022-12-07T17:34:50Z")
Ukrainian government, I don’t like to say this, but you are overstepping the mark here: > **[Ukraine calls on western allies to boycott Russian culture](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/07/ukraine-calls-on-western-allies-to-boycott-russian-culture)** > > Minister defends step in ‘civilisational battle’ but says it would not amount to ‘cancelling Tchaikovsky’ On the first day of class, my Russian teacher in college told us: “The Russian language is not your enemy.” Likewise, Russian culture is no one’s enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1035 "2022-12-07T17:48:06Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Ukrainian government, I don’t like to say this, but you are overstepping the mark here Agreed. It’s othering, something Russia is very guilty of themselves, but the goose is not good for the gander. It just leads to ethnic hatred, which leads to war crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1036 "2022-12-07T17:51:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Apparently there was an old joke that seems fitting for the moment: after the Mattias Rust incident, Gorbachev ordered Russian Air Defense personnel to start drinking more vodka because at least tipping a glass would force them to look up from time to time. The joke I remember from the time was about the B-2 bomber, which was under development at the time. ‘Why spend $2 billion on an airplane that does what a German boy can do in a $17,000 Cessna?’ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1037 "2022-12-07T18:12:40Z")
Boycotting their products, sure, but boycotting their books and music is just silly. Shostakovich remains awesome no matter who’s in charge of the government. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1038 "2022-12-07T18:14:16Z")
It’s not as if Putin & Friends are making any money from public domain works. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1039 "2022-12-07T23:53:05Z")
I’m boycotting Russian porn. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1040 "2022-12-07T23:53:47Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > [Ukraine calls on western allies to boycott Russian culture | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/07/ukraine-calls-on-western-allies-to-boycott-russian-culture) How about this: I’ll continue to enjoy Tchaikovsky, but I’ll also constantly remind any Russians I encounter that he was gay. Good enough? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1041 "2022-12-08T00:00:11Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Unconfirmed reports that they’re ancient Tu-141’s, which are essentially 70’s fighter jets with autopilots. If true, I wouldn’t want to be the officer in charge of air defense in that sector. his job was outsourced to the lowest bidder - which happened to be a company with a german name … jokes aside: that is what you get when you convert your S-300 and S-400 Air Defense systems into devices shooting at schools and hospitals “elect one” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1042 "2022-12-08T00:54:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’m boycotting Russian porn. I’ve cancelled my Russian mail-order bride. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1043 "2022-12-08T00:58:40Z")
Upcoming Frontline episode on PBS covers what happened at Bucha: > **[Crime Scene: Bucha | FRONTLINE](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/crime-scene-bucha/)** > > Watch a documentary investigating the atrocities committed in the Ukrainian town of Bucha during Russia’s month-long occupation in early 2022. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=53)