# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1104 "2022-12-12T15:41:00Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Scores of Russian mercenaries die when a barracks is blown up? It’s hard to work up much sympathy here. I feel some sympathy for the Russian draftees coerced into the fighting. But the Wagner Group? Yeah, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1105 "2022-12-12T17:36:06Z")
Wagner group has a reputation for extreme brutality. They got what they deserved. I was surprised because the news reports a fire and the video afterward shows a bombed building. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1106 "2022-12-12T18:26:23Z")
Yeah, the debris pattern says ‘explosion’ not someone being careless with a cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1107 "2022-12-12T18:30:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I was surprised because the news reports a fire and the video afterward shows a bombed building. “Well, we didn’t mention the _cause_ of the fire…” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1108 "2022-12-12T19:12:48Z")
UK Intel says Russia is no go. Putin’s visions of conquest are a pipe dream. > **[Russia Doesn't Have Any Military Force](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-doesn-t-have-any-military-force/vi-AA15bFEc?cvid=6ab9c3c3b444493eb38c3f7c8c758067&ocid=winp2fptaskbar)** > > Russia does not currently have capabilities for conquests in Ukraine, according to The British Ministry of Defense. Russia continues to adhere to its minimum objective - complete control of southern and eastern Ukrainian territories. "However, it is... ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1109 "2022-12-12T19:14:47Z")
Jeez. Looks like UKR overlooked one in that image. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1110 "2022-12-12T20:04:53Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > UK Intel says Russia is no go. > Putin’s visions of conquest are a pipe dream. > > [MSN](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-doesn-t-have-any-military-force/vi-AA15bFEc?cvid=6ab9c3c3b444493eb38c3f7c8c758067&ocid=winp2fptaskbar) Hitler and his military leaders were astute enough to build up forces before going in to Poland. Putin’s military didn’t remotly come close to being ready. Either the lightning strike on Kiev worked or they were screwed. They had to realize Ukraine’s government had to change before NATO could react. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1111 "2022-12-12T20:16:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Hitler and his military leaders were astute enough to build up forces before going in to Poland. However at the end Hitler was moving around “divisions” that consisted of a couple tanks and a hundred boys and old men. Looks like Putin is getting there. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1112 "2022-12-12T21:13:06Z")
So, it looks like it’s coming down to a question of how Putin is going to leave this plane of existence, a bullet in his own head, hung upside down by angry countrymen, or hung right side up by angry victors. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1113 "2022-12-12T21:24:49Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > hung upside down by angry countrymen I think the tradition of piñatas should be exported to Ukraine and Russia. And yes, I did know the Mussolini reference. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1114 "2022-12-12T21:48:54Z")
Wagner are mercenaries, right? What’s the threshold on their [yummy to pointy ratio](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0721.html)? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1115 "2022-12-12T22:36:33Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Jeez. Looks like UKR overlooked one in that image. Capturing one in four rather than destroying them all probably keeps Ukraine armor at full capacity without worrying about western sources. Seems the supplies from the east are more than enough. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1116 "2022-12-12T23:22:29Z")
I’ve wonder about mercenaries commitment? They have prior military training, modern weapons, and that gives them an advantage against irregular armed forces. However, if the mercs are fighting dug in Ukrainian infantry would they feel obligated to slug it out for a paycheck?. It’s trench warfare around Bakhmut. I’m not sure a Merc would sit in that freezing cold mud reading _Soldier of Fortune_. A paycheck isn’t much good if you aren’t alive to spend it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1117 "2022-12-13T06:47:32Z")
Unfortunately, I’ve come to the conclusion that Wagner are mercenaries in name only. Instead, what they actually are are Putin’s Waffen SS, Janissary Corps or Republican Guard - an elite military formation that stands outside the regular army and is directly loyal to the Leader. Authoritarian regimes love units like that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1118 "2022-12-13T14:47:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Unfortunately, I’ve come to the conclusion that Wagner are mercenaries in name only. Yeah, they’re a weird beast. It’s like if the Oathkeepers decided to get some experience by working a few small wars in third world countries, then used that experience to invade Mexico on behalf of Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1119 "2022-12-13T14:47:30Z")
The problem is that elite warriors often won’t tolerate being used as cannon fodder. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1120 "2022-12-13T14:56:20Z")
Putin’s probably happy that the Wagnerites are stuck several hundred kilometers away… ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1121 "2022-12-13T14:59:29Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > The problem is that elite warriors often won’t tolerate being used as cannon fodder. This. To complicate that, Russia’s problem is that any offensive they launch, like their attempts in Bakhmut, are going to involve cannon fodder, because they no longer have the strength to launch blitzkrieg style offensives. That means that the Wagnerites can be used defensively or as cannon fodder in doomed offensives. Neither one of those roles is likely to appeal to them. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1122 "2022-12-13T15:24:38Z")
I thought the Wagner group was a way for Putin to send military aid without officially involving Russia. Just have someone in the destination country “hire” them and you can send them out for whatever you need done. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1123 "2022-12-13T15:46:20Z")
This is a interesting development. Melitopol was a very bad defeat for Ukraine last spring. > **[Ukrainian forces damage key bridge near Melitopol, reports say](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/13/ukrainian-forces-damage-key-bridge-near-melitopol-reports-say)** > > Supply lines to Russian troops likely to be affected after bridge over Molochna River partly collapsed > [@](#): > > The strike on the bridge comes just two days after [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) hit a Russian barracks sited in a resort in the city, with Himars rockets causing substantial damage and casualties. > > The increase in Ukrainian pressure on Russian forces in Melitopol appears to be following a similar pattern to tactics used against Kherson before its liberation, with the targeting of both Russian troops and supply lines, including logistics links to the Crimean peninsula and to the east via the Russia-occupied cities to Berdiansk and Mariupol. > > With Ukrainian forces now operating east of the Dnipro River, Melitopol is seen as a key objective for Kyiv in the south of the country after the recapture of Kherson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=57)