# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/121 "2022-11-01T02:10:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Ah, a take on the old skydiving joke. It’s the old submarine joke to me. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/122 "2022-11-01T03:13:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Helicopters have negative stability. When they are disrupted, the diverge from stable flight at an ever-increasing rate. This is why, as I’ve said a couple of times, they require constant, minute control inputs. The turns of the helicopter give the impression to me that it was being controlled and not in some sort of autopilot setting maintaining direction and altitude. Without manual or automatic control, it seems unlikely to me that it could continue flying for that long. Maybe the pilot feared a second MANPADS shot and, seeing the helicopter was still under his control, felt it more prudent to try and get a bit of distance before attempting a landing, but in the end it was too late. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/123 "2022-11-01T03:15:58Z")
I remember the line “A helicopter is an accident looking for a place to land” which made me wary of ever being in a helicopter. It was from an early episode of _MASH_ but I can’t find any more details as to which one. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/124 "2022-11-01T07:32:08Z")
(nevermind - JohnnyLA showed up) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/125 "2022-11-01T07:41:53Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I wish these men all the best in their efforts to find a peaceful place to settle. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to offer them refugee status in the US once they’ve successfully surrendered to Ukrainian forces. There are plenty in the US who didn’t want any Afghani refugees at all - men who have been through Iran and then (even temporarily) under the pay of Russia are highly unlikely to be allowed to come to the US. Heck, there were Ukrainians who could only get a ticket to Mexico who then tried to seek asylum in the US and were denied because, I dunno, they got cooties or something by being south of the border. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/126 "2022-11-01T09:51:12Z")
Next you’re going to tell me that _Airwolf_ lied to me and that you can’t fly a helicopter upside down. Tsk. Meanwhile, another Russian oligarch may wish to avoid standing near high windows: > **[Oligarch renounces Russian citizenship over Ukraine war](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/31/oligarch-renounces-tinkov-russian-citizenship-ukraine-war)** > > Oleg Tinkov, who has previously spoken out against the conflict, says he ‘won’t be associated with a fascist country’ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/127 "2022-11-01T11:09:17Z")
One surprising result of this war is that we’re learning then when push comes to shove, how little influence the notorious Russian oligarchs have over their country and over the world. Turns out that money isn’t power - _power_ is power. Nobody cares how much money you have if the government can just seize your accounts and throw you out a window. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/128 "2022-11-01T11:13:11Z")
[Not _that_ surprising](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/resolved-the-russian-oligarchs-will-not-remove-putin/962270). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/129 "2022-11-01T14:03:25Z")
Controlling news inside Russia isn’t enough? I hope this judgement isn’t enforceable? Guardian live blog > [@](#): > > A Russian court on Tuesday fined **Wikipedia** owner Wikimedia Foundation 2m rubles (£28,200 / $32,600) over articles relating to the Ukraine war. > [@](#): > > The UN **disputed Moscow’s claim that a civilian cargo ship carrying Ukrainian grain may have been involved in a drone strike against Russia.** The UN aid chief Martin Griffiths said no such ships were in the Black Sea’s designated “safe zone” corridor at the time Russia said the attack had taken place. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/130 "2022-11-01T14:17:54Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The dismissal of General Lapin means that all five of Russia’s senior commanders - commanders of Russia’s four primary military districts and the airborne forces (VDV) - who led the invasion of Ukraine in February have been relieved. isnt that surprising? … since - according to Putin - everything is going as planned > [@DesertDog](#): > > Tradition. I have read WWII histories of a T-34 driving cross country with a dozen screaming Cossacks – Ukraine didn’t mind being part of the Soviet Union at the time – clinging to the outside, ready to jump off and overwhelm any anti-tank gun crews they came across. … more practicality I would guess… 30km riding shotgun outside of a tank beats walking with full gear for 30km six days of the week (except the day you get javelin’d) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/131 "2022-11-01T14:39:10Z")
There are a couple other reasons to ride on top of IFV/APCs. If the vehicle hits a mine, being on top is generally more survivable than being inside. This depends a bit on the vehicle, of course. You see Ukrainians as well as Russians riding on top of BMPs and BTRs, but generally not on top of the various MRAPs they’ve received from the West. Also, it’s a lot quicker to dismount and get into a fight from on top of a vehicle than it is from inside, especially the BTR with its tiny side hatch into the troop compartment. Being inside a vehicle is great protection from light arms fire and shrapnel from artillery near-misses, but it doesn’t help at all against direct hits from ATGM, tank and possibly even just IFV fire, or direct hits from artillery. Infantry is generally going to be where they think they’re safest from the sum total of threats. Basically if you think mines are more likely than light arms fire, on top is probably better than inside, unless your vehicle is actually designed to survive hitting a mine like MRAPs are. ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/132 "2022-11-01T16:20:35Z")
And they can fire preemptively at any infantry threat to the tank > **[WW2 tank protection - Funny](https://9gag.com/gag/aVPjDev)** > > 64 points • 5 comments Too bad if the vehicle can’t stay on the road and goes tumbling. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/133 "2022-11-01T16:23:30Z")
> [@FrenchDunadan](#): > > And they can fire preemptively at any infantry threat to the tank And if they don’t deal with all the enemy troops with anti-tank weapons, they’re an additional layer of standoff “armor” which might help defeat a shaped-charge round. Like sandbags with guns. ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/134 "2022-11-01T16:26:12Z")
Exactly! Those tanks are expensive, recruits are not after all. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/135 "2022-11-01T16:29:05Z")
If the vehicle does roll over and crush them all, then their relatives can be informed that they died in a simple traffic accident. And denied any payments of course. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/136 "2022-11-01T17:50:08Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > sandbags with guns. Now that I think about it, this may be the best way to characterize this latest batch of Russian “recruits”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/137 "2022-11-01T20:12:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Controlling news inside Russia isn’t enough? Of course not. Putin wants to control the global narrative as well, that’s been apparent at least to me from the onset. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope this judgement isn’t enforceable? Not in actual court, no. What Putin decides to do in the way of ricin-tainted umbrellas or polonium laced tea and the like is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/138 "2022-11-01T20:14:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Of course not. Putin wants to control the global narrative as well, that’s been apparent at least to me from the onset. True. However, American stooges are getting pretty scarce. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/139 "2022-11-01T21:32:55Z")
British Intelligence is reporting that the Russian reserves arriving in Ukraine are equipped with AKM rifles instead of AK-74 rifles as are carried by the regular army troops. Will likely complicate the Russian supply situation as the rounds are different for those rifle. May not be so bad if the Russians are duing unit replacement so the standard weapons are the same for everyone in a unit. But if they are sending individual replacements out to units with different weapon calibers it will be a nightmare getting the right mix of ammo forward. Imagine each combat unit having a random mix of guys shooting 5.45 and others shooting 7.62. Will a unit need 90% 5.45 and 10% 7.62 or a 50/50 mix or what? The Russian supply system seems to have a hard enough time pushing supplies forward. Easy to see units losing combat effectiveness because they don’t have the right mix of ammo to keep all the guys in a unit with a full load out for their personal arms. > ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/140 "2022-11-01T21:34:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Of course not. Putin wants to control the global narrative as well, that’s been apparent at least to me from the onset. It’s one thing for Russia to put propaganda out and hope International news will report it. This time they charged Wikipedia _in Russian court_. What gives Russia the legal standing to do that? AFAIK Wikipedia doesn’t operate in Russia? It’s my understanding their content is offered in Russian and many other languages. Anyone can edit Wikipedia and that can be abused by people or organizations with agendas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=8)