# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 79
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1577 "2023-01-06T19:04:30Z")
Maybe not IEDs, but Russia has placed a shit ton of anti-tank mines along their defensive lines. Not sure extra base armor would help in that case though. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1578 "2023-01-06T19:12:01Z")
FWIW, this is the exact environment Bradleys were originally envisioned for: rolling through Warsaw Pact territory while counterattacking out of the NATO defensive front. The only wrinkle is that the good guys aren’t literally NATO here. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1579 "2023-01-06T19:29:57Z")
Well, that and Bradleys were also intended to function in tandem with the M-1 Abrams, as opposed to the T-64s Ukr has. But no matter how you slice it, the Bradleys are a step up from the BMP-1s and 2s Ukr has had to rely on for their IFVs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1580 "2023-01-06T19:30:32Z")
But how did it end up with a turret on top? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aXQ2lO3ieBA/maxresdefault.jpg "Pentagon Wars - Bradley Fighting Vehicle Evolution") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA) The Bradley was supposed to be an armored personnel carrier… not a tank killer. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1581 "2023-01-06T19:34:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > IIRC was it the Bradley’s that would turn over? 60 Minutes did a piece about vehicles flipping over on turns. It may have been a different vehicle. MRAPs are the ones that flip. We’d get a new unit into Iraq up at FOB/COB Speicher and it would be their first time with the MRAP. They had a practice course around the outside of the Ammo Supply Point. After check out it would be time to patrol. They’d leave the base, turn left on Rt. 1. With the slight camber to the road it was flip city. They started stationing a 40 ton mobile crane at the intersection until the troops got the hang of it. This was on asphalt roads. Bradleys can work on a 40 deg. side slope. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1582 "2023-01-06T19:34:30Z")
During the Gulf War, M2 Bradleys destroyed more Iraqi armored vehicles than the M1 Abrams. (Wikipedia) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1583 "2023-01-06T19:44:06Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > MRAPs are the ones that flip. We’d get a new unit into Iraq up at FOB/COB Speicher and it would be their first time with the MRAP. Thank you. It has been years since I saw that segment on 60 Minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1584 "2023-01-06T19:48:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I remember the Bradley’s had a lot of problems in Iraq. The floors were thin and vulnerable to IED’s. All of the original armor was too thin for certain conditions. Not only were IED’s a big problem, but direct RPG hits from short range on thinner areas of the aluminum armor was also an issue (the armor was subsequently upgraded a bit to help deal with the latter problem at least). The original armor design was just to be small arms-proof (up to 14.5mm). Basically they are not designed for urban warfare and do poorly in those kind of constricted conditions. But as noted they were designed for mobile armored warfare in Europe. They did quite well in Iraq in open country engaging much older Soviet armor, they just kind of sucked when fighting switched to asymmetric urban warfare. ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1585 "2023-01-06T19:52:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > and I doubt Ukrainian Bradleys will have much of a problem with sand. Well, depends were in Ukraine you are… > **[Oleshky Sands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleshky_Sands)** > > Oleshky Sands (Ukrainian: Олешківські піски, romanized: Oleshkivsʹki pisky) is a desert in Ukraine, inland from the Black Sea. It consists of sand dunes or kuchuhury (locally),\[clarification needed\] which are up to five meters high. Sparse vegetation can be located across the sands. > The sands are thought to be formed during the most recent ice age by aeolian processes accumulating and forming cliffs of lower parts of nearby River Dnieper. It is speculated that the amount of vegetation was reduce... ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1586 "2023-01-06T20:41:36Z")
> [@FrenchDunadan](#): > > Well, depends were in Ukraine you are… > > [Oleshky Sands - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleshky_Sands) Who knew? Maybe some more surprises too. > In Soviet times the sands were used as an Air Force bombing range for pilots of the Warsaw Pact alliance. To this day there is a possibility of finding some unexploded ordnance ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1587 "2023-01-06T20:57:04Z")
This area is relatively unlikely to see much fighting. It’s south of the Dnipro across from Kherson and stretches east a ways. Ukraine will probably not try to attack across the Dnipro in force, but rather attack south from Zaporizhzhia towards Tokmak and Melitopol. If such an attack were successful the subsequent fighting would be towards the approaches to Crimea rather than over a bunch of strategically irrelevant sand dunes up by the Dnipro. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1588 "2023-01-06T21:14:18Z")
Latest aid package - Jan 2023 [![](https://images.spot.im/image/upload/v200/265417c395e9f565afd2a1cae54c534b) ](https://images.spot.im/image/upload/v200/265417c395e9f565afd2a1cae54c534b) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1589 "2023-01-06T21:21:57Z")
When I first read the above list, I stopped at “Zuni aircraft rockets.” Those suckers are 60 years old, I thought. But turns out that the military has been playing around with a laser-guided version lately, so they can now be used to kill illuminated targets on a modern battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1590 "2023-01-06T21:41:56Z")
The RIM-7 Sea Sparrows are interesting. In early 2023, it was announced that the United States would transfer Sea Sparrow missiles to Ukraine, to be fired from modified, Soviet-era [9K37 Buk] missile launchers.[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-7_Sea_Sparrow#cite_note-10) Zuni rockets are unusual too.In January 2023, the United States announced that it would be supplying 4,000 Zuni rockets to the Armed Forces of Ukraine for use in the Russo-Ukrainian War.[11]. No word as to whether these are HE warhead or, interestingly, perhaps chaff to confuse radar. 18 155mm self-propelled howitzers is good too. We (US) have been sending the M777 towed howitzers while others have sent a few of the M109s. > **[M109 howitzer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M109_howitzer)** > > The M109 is an American 155 mm turreted self-propelled howitzer, first introduced in the early 1960s to replace the M44. It has been upgraded a number of times, most recently to the M109A7. The M109 family is the most common Western indirect-fire support weapon of maneuver brigades of armored and mechanized infantry divisions. > The M109 has a crew of four: the section chief/commander, the driver, the gunner, and the ammunition handler/loader. The chief or gunner aims the cannon left or right (def... We could spare a few hundred but 18 along with all the howitzers from allies will push Ukraine to an artillery balance with Russia combined with superior range and targeting. The 155mm rounds (dumb HE M795 and M107) supplies are a concern. 70,000 of those is augmented with 500 more Excalibur GPS/INS rounds and 1,200 more RAAM anti-tank projectiles. No word on which model of TOW missiles, TOW-2A is direct attack, TOW-2B is top attack. The anti-armor rockets are probably AT4 or perhaps one of the improved versions of the M72 LAW. Grenade launcher ammo is for the MK19s, 40mm HEDP rounds are a big favorite over there. UKR uses them in an indirect fire mode guided by drones adjusting fire. HIMARS remains good, could be HE unitary or billion ball bearing rounds. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1591 "2023-01-06T21:43:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > When I first read the above list, I stopped at “Zuni aircraft rockets.” Those suckers are 60 years old, I thought. Wait until you hear about the M2 Browning. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1592 "2023-01-06T21:52:35Z")
The M2 .50 cal mg looks over at a B52 bomber and scoffs, “Whippersnapper.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1593 "2023-01-06T21:54:49Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > MRAPs are the ones that flip. MRAPs are basically SUVs on steroids. Since civilian SUVs already have a [tendency to roll](https://www.avrek.com/blog/how-does-a-rollover-happen-and-what-you-can-do-to-avoid-it/), you can imagine what this would do. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Navistar_MaxxPro.JPG) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Navistar_MaxxPro.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1594 "2023-01-06T22:06:08Z")
Article’s a bit old, from 2021, explains the problems a bit. It’s often the basic stuff that fucks you up. Training and rules really need to be emphasized. Training training training. > **[GAO: Marines Need More Training; Clearer SOPs, Oversight Needed to Stem Fatal...](https://news.usni.org/2021/07/16/gao-marines-need-more-training-clearer-sops-oversight-needed-to-stem-fatal-vehicle-mishaps#more-87346)** > > Fatal, serious accidents involving tactical vehicles could be prevented if the Marine Corps implements stricter oversight, enforces standards and ensures drivers and others get more realistic training, according to the Government Accountability... > The Marine Corps recorded 662 tactical vehicle accidents – including 29 Class A mishaps with serious injury or death – during that period, while the Army had a total of 3,091, the GAO said. The agency found that vehicle “rollovers” happened in 24 percent of those mishaps and in 63 percent of any accident where a service member died. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1595 "2023-01-06T22:08:03Z")
German additional aid announced with US package Jan 2023. **Delivered military support to Ukraine:** (Changes compared to the previous week in bold) - **20 rocket launchers 70mm on pick-up trucks with rockets** \* - **15 armoured recovery vehicles** \*\*\* (before: 13)\*\* - _13 tank transporter tractor M1070 Oshkosh (before: 12)_\* - **7 tracked and remote controlled infantry vehicles for support tasks** \* - _143 Pick-ups (before: 80)_\* - **216 generators (before: 195)** - **35 load-handling trucks 8x8** **(before: 18)** - **148** **mobile heating systems** \* **(before: 116)** - **26 reconnaissance drones** \* **(before: 18)** - _36 ambulances (before: 35)_\* - **85** **border protection vehicles** \*\*\* (before: 78)\*\* - **36.400 wool blankets** - **12 heavy duty trailer trucks** \* - _55 anti-drone sensors and jammers (before: 28)_\* - **30 drone detection systems** \* - _114 reconnaissance drones (before: 22)_\* ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1596 "2023-01-06T22:31:38Z")
Where’s that shipping crate of condoms? They keep moisture out of the rifles. 😉 I’m glad to see 216 generators on the list. They can power relief stations with heat and phone charging for civilians. 36,400 blankets will be very helpful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=78) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=80)