# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1597 "2023-01-06T23:28:04Z")
Right, the Bradley is called an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, not an Armored Personel Carrier. It is ostensibly meant to operate as a sort of light tank in addition to carrying a squad of soldiers. An APC is meant to carry soldiers to the battle and then leave, this is meant to have the ability to stand and fight in support of the infantry it transports. And it is capable of knocking out older Soviet tanks, as was shown in Iraq. Although it is not really protected against a shot from a main gun of one. I see 50 of them included in the aid package, along with 100 M113 APCs which are not really meant to engage in a prolonged battle, although they often end up in that situation if there is no other option. (That is in reference to the list that was posted after your post) ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1598 "2023-01-07T01:49:43Z")
Some one has been reading up on American history. I believe there are some rivers that could be crossed. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1599 "2023-01-07T02:29:45Z")
Hehehe, nah. I had totally forgotten about the date of Washington crossing the Delaware. Thanks for reminding me! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1600 "2023-01-07T03:37:37Z")
I hear _Tết_ is coming up soon. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1601 "2023-01-07T04:36:21Z")
Wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1602 "2023-01-07T13:58:39Z")
Outside Soledar, the Ukrainians are using old salt mine tunnels to get behind Russian forces and attack. (The video title is misleading) I found this short report quite interesting. Its not hard to imagine the Russian frustration as they are attacked by forces that suddenly appear and disappear. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/cRb-vpxFqks/maxresdefault.jpg "06 Jan: Genius Move. Russians NEVER EXPECTED THAT | War in Ukraine Explained") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRb-vpxFqks) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1603 "2023-01-07T14:28:50Z")
It could be a scene from First World War no man’s land after a failed attack. Instead, it’s the killing fields of Bakhmut. They are likely Wagner troops, apparently. Spoilered for many corpses seen from a long range. [https://twitter.com/666\_mancer/status/1611709440352215042](https://twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1611709440352215042) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1604 "2023-01-07T14:42:21Z")
The Guardian reported the head of the Wagner group wants the wealth from the Salt mines around Bakhmut. It’s crazy how much resources have gone into trying to take Bakhmut. The attack at Soledar is an attempt to circle around behind Bakhmut. There’s a new channel on YouTube that covers the war. SIlicon Curtain. Great in depth interviews with a variety of people. They are an hour long. I google to find information on the guest. Owen Matthews is a British writer, historian and journalist. One example from Silicon Curtain [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1XbmVAaseGM/maxresdefault.jpg "Owen Matthews - Has Putin Turned into a Reckless Gambler - Risking Everything in his War on Ukraine?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XbmVAaseGM) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1605 "2023-01-07T14:51:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Outside Soledar, the Ukrainians are using old salt mine tunnels to get behind Russian forces and attack. (The video title is misleading) This is where it’s really nice to be the defender rather than the attacker. The Ukrainians know exactly where those tunnels go-- Probably some of the Ukrainian soldiers were miners in those very tunnels, before the war. The Russians, meanwhile, probably knew that there were tunnels in the vicinity, but didn’t have any detailed information on where. > [@smithsb](#): > > Latest aid package - Jan 2023 Completely aside… Is it just me, or is the font size changing several times in that list? It’s not even to get things to all fit on the lines, because “Claymore anti-personnel munitions” is a smaller font than “Sniper rifles, machine guns, and ammunition for grenade launchers and small arms” right above it. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1606 "2023-01-07T19:12:48Z")
The reason why Bakhmut is such a critical battleground This was new to me—but seems logical. Bakhmut has a vast system of underground tunnels and store rooms These would make a great military base for Russia-- underground, protected from Himars or artillery fire. For months now I’ve been reading that Bakmut has no strategic value, and Russia is wasting resources fighting there, just for some sort of symbolic victory. I’ve never heard anything about the underground resources there. I found this link on yahoo (so it may not work for long), but it quotes Reuters, so I assume it is legit. [Russian mercenary boss says wants Ukraine's Bakhmut for its 'underground cities'](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-mercenary-boss-says-wants-180801001.html) > [@](#): > > "vast salt mines in the area contain more than 100 miles of tunnels and a vast underground room which has hosted football matches and classical music concerts in more peaceful times… > > the system of mines, which is actually a network of underground cities, not only has the ability to hold a big group of people at a depth of 80-100 metres, but tanks and infantry fighting vehicles can also move about." ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1607 "2023-01-07T19:44:56Z")
BTW, this may seem silly, but am I the only one who, whenever I hear about fighting in Bakhmut, expect to hear about a platinum dragon swooping in and obliterating the Russian forces with disintegration breath? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1608 "2023-01-07T21:06:00Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > **15 armoured recovery vehicles** \*\*\* (before: 13)\*\* What? The tractors are too busy? (j/k) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1609 "2023-01-08T03:41:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > BTW, this may seem silly, but am I the only one who, whenever I hear about fighting in Bakhmut, expect to hear about a platinum dragon swooping in and obliterating the Russian forces with disintegration breath? Well, now you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1610 "2023-01-08T14:49:51Z")
I had to look it up. Apparently Bahamut is the Dragon God of Justice. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1611 "2023-01-08T15:13:59Z")
Thanks. Had no idea what that was referencing, but my knowledge of dragon names doesn’t go beyond “Puff.” ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1612 "2023-01-08T15:22:44Z")
Well, in Bakhmut, there are dragon’s teeth (fortifications), underground mines and hordes of orcs. Squint, and these could be fire-breathing dragons. > ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1613 "2023-01-08T18:04:33Z")
The first syllable of “Bakhmut” is also a Russian onomatopoea for “bang!” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1614 "2023-01-09T12:59:17Z")
Apparently Ukraine is kicking Russia’s ass despite only receiving 15% of allocated money and equipment (according to that nice Mr Kadyrov). Wow - imagine what they could do if they were receiving all of it! > ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1615 "2023-01-09T13:54:09Z")
I believe _projection_ is the relevant term here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1616 "2023-01-09T14:11:39Z")
Where does he think the rest of it is going? There’s exactly one major market in the world right now for this sort of military equipment. Even if someone were stealing some of it, they’d have to sell it somewhere to make their profit, and the highest price is going to be in Ukraine. Unless he thinks that it’s being stolen and then sold on the black market to Russia? Just because Russian officials steal most of their military hardware and sell it on the black market, doesn’t mean that’s the norm for the rest of the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=81)