# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1617 "2023-01-09T14:19:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Where does he think the rest of it is going? He doesn’t think it’s going anywhere. He knows he’s just bullshitting for his domestic audience, that he hopes is too stupid to think through the implications of his accusations. As you say, most of the “money” the US is giving Ukraine in actually in the form of physical goods - vehicles, weapons, ammunition, other stuff like clothing. And we’re publicly posting lists of how many of each item are being sent. It would be trivially easy to show that the received equipment is less than the promised, especially if it’s really 15% as he claims. But he knows his audience. They won’t bother to think about any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1618 "2023-01-09T15:33:53Z")
I mean, Ukraine is certainly not without a recent history of significant corruption. Doesn’t make these sorts of allegations believable. But, it is something to pay attention to, especially if/when rebuilding happens. And, of course, in regards to materials with more civilian uses - generators, fuel, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1619 "2023-01-09T16:06:20Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I mean, Ukraine is certainly not without a recent history of significant corruption. That’s true of most countries including the US, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1620 "2023-01-09T16:14:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’s true of most countries including the US, sadly. Well yes, all countries have some corruption. But some have more than others - or at least rate higher on perceived corruption on the index, and Ukraine was definitely on the corrupt end and much closer to Russia than to the US in 2020, and had been for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1621 "2023-01-09T16:15:19Z")
In 2020 the US government was in many ways far more corrupt than the Ukrainian one. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1622 "2023-01-09T16:19:07Z")
> **Off-Topic Post** > > You can certainly argue that, if you want to provide statistics or cite sources. I’m just reporting what actual organizations that study corruption say, and that is that there’s a lot of corruption in Ukraine, and there has been for years. I acknowledge that much of this in perceived corruption rather actual corruption (which difficult to measure). > > I just don’t feel like ignoring or underplaying longstanding issues (or claiming equivalency without some evidence) is a good thing to do. > > Just because Ukraine is a nation being invaded does not mean that there were or are no serious internal issues, or that corruption isn’t/wasn’t one of them. At the very least, it’d made news articles (albeit, these were foreign, not domestic ones, so had an outsider view) and gotten attention as a particular problem for several years before this invasion. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1623 "2023-01-09T16:20:14Z")
# But not in this thread. Start a new one if you like. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1624 "2023-01-10T07:18:32Z")
I read the Wagner Groups best men are attacking Soledar. The Guardian blog > [@](#): > > In its daily updated posted a short while ago, the UK Ministry of Defence says that [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) and Wagner are “likely in control of most of” Soledar amid fierce fighting for the Donbas town. > > Russia and Wagner have made tactical advances in the last four days, the ministry says, in what it described as “highly likely an effort to envelop Bakhmut from the north, and to disrupt lines of communication”. > > It adds that Russia is, however, “unlikely to envelop the town imminently because Ukrainian forces maintain stable defensive lines in depth and control over supply routes”. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1625 "2023-01-10T14:59:02Z")
I didn’t watch the video, but this morning I saw Denys’ daily update titled ‘Ukraine Will Leave Soledar’. If that’s the case I’m dismayed to see the setback. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1626 "2023-01-10T18:54:13Z")
I’ve read it may take several months for the Bradley’s to arrive. Maybe then Ukraine can take back some territory. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1627 "2023-01-11T07:25:28Z")
Interesting article from RUSI about the airwar. [The Russian Air War and Ukrainian Requirements for Air Defence (rusi.org)](https://static.rusi.org/SR-Russian-Air-War-Ukraine-web-final.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1628 "2023-01-11T14:52:56Z")
Polish president: > [@](#): > > in #Lviv: A company of Leopard tanks for Ukraine will be transferred as part of building an international coalition. Such a decision is already in Poland. > Hopefully, not Leopard 1 tanks (1965), but Leopard 2 tanks (1979). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1629 "2023-01-11T14:53:33Z")
Prigozhin needs to read about the German Brown Shirts and the Night of the Long Knives on June 30, 1934. Hitler ordered the leaders killed or arrested. It ended the Brown Shirts as political rivals. Prigozhin better not threaten Putin or the government. Link [‘Putin’s Chef’ Yevgeny Prigozhin Humiliated After Bragging of Soledar Wagner Victory](https://www.thedailybeast.com/putins-chef-yevgeny-prigozhin-humiliated-after-bragging-of-soledar-wagner-victory) Cite [The Brownshirts: The Role of the Sturmabteilung (SA) in Nazi Germany](https://www.historyhit.com/hitlers-bullyboys-the-role-of-the-sa-in-nazi-germany/) > [@](#): > > In an announcement late Tuesday, Prigozhin gleefully [claimed](https://t.me/rian_ru/190903) his men had taken control of a salt mine town that Russian forces are hoping to use as a stepping stone to gain control of the highly coveted city of Bakhmut, a Ukrainian stronghold for months. > > “Wagner units have taken control of all the territory of Soledar,” Prigozhin said through his press service. “I want to emphasize that no units other than the Wagner fighters took part in the assault on Soledar,” he said > [@](#): > > Russia’s Defense Ministry shot down Prigozhin’s boast that his own men had single-handedly brought Putin a win, instead confirming Ukraine’s announcement that fighting was still underway in the town. > Moreover, defense officials [suggested](https://t.me/mod_russia/23347) Russian airborne units and assault teams are leading the charge. The Defense Ministry made no mention of Wagner whatsoever. > > The rebuff comes as praise for Prigozhin’s outfit hit a fever pitch among pro-Kremlin figures, and the notorious mercenary group threatened to outshine Putin’s regular soldiers on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1630 "2023-01-11T16:50:11Z")
Financial Times: UK to send tanks to Ukraine. [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmM42ctX0AAGyWZ?format=png&name=900x900) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmM42ctX0AAGyWZ?format=png&name=900x900) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1631 "2023-01-11T18:02:45Z")
Valery Gerasimov, Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces since 2012, has been appointed commander of the Russian invasion army in Ukraine, replacing General Surovikin, who had held the position for the last three months. Chief of the General Staff is the highest-ranking officer of the Russian Armed Forces, so it remains to be seen whether someone else will replace Gerasimov in that role. I will note that Adolf Hitler assumed the comparable position of Commander-in-Chief of the German Army in December 1941. > **[Putin replaces commander of Russia’s war in Ukraine after just 3 months](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/putin-names-new-commander-russias-war-ukraine-gerasimov-surovikin-rcna65307)** > > Valery Gerasimov takes over from Sergei Surovikin, who will be one of his deputies, the Defense Ministry said. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1632 "2023-01-11T18:15:04Z")
Man, if the USA would have just sent something like 5% more of its military inventory half a year ago, this war could have been over by now. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1633 "2023-01-11T18:28:52Z")
Correction: Hitler made himself head of the German army (Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres) in December 1941, but the head of the German armed forces as a whole (Chef des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht) was Wilhelm Keitel, who held the position throughout the war. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1634 "2023-01-11T19:10:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Man, if the USA would have just sent something like 5% more of its military inventory half a year ago, this war could have been over by now. Absolutely. This war could be won with better aircraft and heavy armor. It fustrates me the rules for the bad guys can be ignored. I’ve seen documentaries with Korean War pilots talking about dogfights with Chinese Migs. The talk heard on the radio was _Russian_. Nobody risked provocation by accusing Russia. Publicly it was accepted these were Chinese aircraft and pilots. Yet NATO is afraid to give Ukraine 35 year old Soviet planes. Oh my goodness we’ll piss off Russia. I wouldn’t suggest using American pilots. They aren’t trained to fly MiGs and we don’t want POW hostages like Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1635 "2023-01-11T20:39:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It fustrates me the rules for the bad guys can be ignored. That’s the advantage of being a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1636 "2023-01-11T20:49:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > That’s the advantage of being a bad guy. Yeah. No one worries about annoying the quiet guy in the pub. It’s the noisy crazy guy who looks like he’d take a swing at you that you worry about. No one, not even Russia, thinks the US would be the first to use nukes, but everyone thinks Russia _might._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=82)