# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 29, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972 "2022-10-29T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 99
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1977 "2023-01-30T19:18:15Z")
And I wonder how many of these conscripted convicts are going to “die” in Ukraine. There was a lot more equipment and uniforms for the Russian army _on paper_. How many of their unwilling forces are going “be killed” that way as well? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1978 "2023-01-30T20:32:08Z")
Yeah, platoons of brave Russian soldiers led by bright young officers like [Lieutenant Kijé](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_Kij%C3%A9_(Prokofiev)) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1979 "2023-01-30T20:42:31Z")
interesting (commercial) tangent here … Russian crude exports (shipments, excludes pipelines) in terms of volume - quite interesting, as its not russian reported numbers, but independently verifiable maritime information that’s a solid 90% reduction vs. historic pre-war numbers > Putin seems to really convert russia into an economic Venezuela / Iran / Libanon ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1980 "2023-01-30T21:09:26Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Are there any verifiable statistics on this? The recent Russian conscription does prove the casualties were high. Solid numbers are hard to com by, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1981 "2023-01-30T23:54:47Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Ukraine says over 100,000 Russians have been killed in the war. The U.S., much more cautiously, says there has been well over 100,000 Russian casualties (which would count the wounded). And also the deserters, of which Russia has had plenty. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1982 "2023-01-31T00:12:04Z")
Well crap. Russia gets its way again. I’ve started reading the transcript. The hosts accent is just too thick. Does he have a known military background? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3erP-78S4yI/maxresdefault.jpg "30 Jan: Russians Breach the PRIMARY DEFENSE | War in Ukraine Explained") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3erP-78S4yI) ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1983 "2023-01-31T02:36:46Z")
The tank situation seems like one in which Germany was the best candidate by far, but did not want to commit alone due to their historic reliance on Russian fuel. So, the US and UK threw some in first to show that Germany would not be alone. Next up, Ukraine will be requesting modern fighter aircraft. What is Macrons number again? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1984 "2023-01-31T04:32:25Z")
This is the first signed deal I’ve seen that includes manufacturing. It’s an important step in strengthening NATO. Guardian Blog > [@](#): > > Australia and [France](https://www.theguardian.com/world/france) have agreed a deal to jointly manufacture and supply thousands of artillery shells to the Ukrainian army, the defence and foreign ministers of the two countries announced on Monday. > > The agreement, “worth several million (Australian) dollars”, was announced after bilateral talks in Paris aimed at resetting the relationship between the two countries seriously damaged by the [2021 Aukus affair](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/11/aukus-pact-australia-pays-830m-penalty-for-ditching-non-nuclear-french-submarines). > > A first shipment of 155mm shells from existing stocks is expected to be delivered to Kyiv within the next two months. The ministers refused to give further details of the contract that will see Australia and France jointly manufacture the ammunition that can be used by French, American and German artillery supplied to [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1985 "2023-01-31T17:27:52Z")
Pro-Russian milblogger Rybar, whose maps have appeared in this thread, concedes that Russian Airborne Forces (VDV) lost half their personnel by September last year. According to Wikipedia, in 2015 there were 45,000 troops in the VDV. > ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1986 "2023-01-31T19:12:02Z")
I don’t think I’ve heard much about the VDV since the very beginning or the war when they destroyed Antonov airport while trying to capture it. I remember they were said to have had some pretty high losses at the time. Totally wasted lives since they couldn’t use or hold the airport. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1987 "2023-01-31T23:29:20Z")
But would Russians dare bomb themselves and claim Ukraine did it? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1988 "2023-01-31T23:50:09Z")
_Oddly, most of the victims of the bomb outside St. Basil’s were high-ranking dissidents_. So, maybe, you know, two birds. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1989 "2023-02-01T00:10:11Z")
Fancy that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1990 "2023-02-01T00:29:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > weariness that comes with having your citizens murdered from the sky on a daily basis. > > The Blitz. 1940-1941. > 40,000 civilians killed > over 100,000 injured > 2 million homes destroyed. > And yet England carried on Interesting video I ran across today: apparently AAA fire over Britain was not only next to useless but may have caused more civilian deaths than German bombs: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-AHWlN8LzFo/maxresdefault.jpg "Why the British army used heavy artillery to kill thousands of Londoners in the early 1940s") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AHWlN8LzFo) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1991 "2023-02-01T09:19:20Z")
I still have no idea what Russia/Putin thinks they gain from throwing more men into a war for which defeat is essentially guaranteed. This war was lost for Russia in the very first weeks, Feb-March 2022, when the initial thrust towards Kyiv failed. From mid-March onwards, Ukrainian victory has been guaranteed, it’s just a matter of how much time and how many deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1992 "2023-02-01T10:04:30Z")
it might be some form of “if you cant convince, then confuse” … iow … murking the waters so you still can appear dangerous even if it takes you the better part of 6 months to conquer a small town like bakhmut ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1993 "2023-02-01T10:28:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wonder what has crushed Zelensky’s normal optimism? Maybe he just had a bad day. The dude’s been leading a country at war for nearly a year. He’s visibly older, I expect he’s exhausted, and maybe he’s just having a off moment. …or… > [@Tamerlane](#): > > It might just be gloom and doom to motivate the West (“we’re struggling, we need more help right away!”). Similarly his optimism could be read in the same (“we’re doing great! with a little more support we can win this!”). All political leaders in this day and age are very aware of the importance of propaganda and media spin and you use what seems like it might work in the moment. Or maybe a bit of both. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > It does appear as though Ukraine does well keeping Russian ground forces from occupying more territory. > > They are not as good at preventing missiles and rockets from hitting their cities and killing people. Yes, well, no one is great at defending against missiles and rockets. There are some defenses, but they’re not perfect. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1994 "2023-02-01T14:16:31Z")
Sumy will probably be a major battle in the up coming Russian counter offensive. Russia still wants Kharkiv. > **[A whisper away from the Russian border, Ukrainian troops wait for another...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/01/a-whisper-away-from-the-russian-border-ukrainian-troops-wait-for-another-assault-on-sumy)** > > Facing a random blizzard of shelling, soldiers on the frontline wonder if Russia is going to have a second crack at taking the north-eastern region > [@](#): > > “It is only small now,” he says reassuringly. The Russians have been throwing everything over here, the soldiers say. Similar testimony can be heard from Ukrainian soldiers dug in across the region, where a quiet new year gave way to a noisy, dangerous and bewildering January. > > On Sunday alone, four apartment blocks and 28 houses were hit by shells in the city of Sumy, as well a hotel, an administrative building, a church, a gym, three shops, a cafe, a kindergarten and a post office. A total of 88 strikes were recorded in one day. Yet, it was nothing out of the ordinary for the past month. > A band of Russian saboteurs was caught last week trying to cross over the border for purposes unknown. They fled under fire. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1995 "2023-02-01T14:24:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I still have no idea what Russia/Putin thinks they gain from throwing more men into a war for which defeat is essentially guaranteed. This war was lost for Russia in the very first weeks, Feb-March 2022, when the initial thrust towards Kyiv failed. From mid-March onwards, Ukrainian victory has been guaranteed, it’s just a matter of how much time and how many deaths. I think at this point it’s a matter of survival for Putin. “Winning” for him now would be staying in power and simply continuing to be able to inflict a lot of casualties (civilian or military) until such time as western support evaporates. That’s not entirely an irrational approach. Sure, western democracies are all in at the moment, but we’re famously fickle over time, and he’s gambling that the Russian population’s propensity to absorb misery exceeds the west’s financial commitment over time. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972/1996 "2023-02-01T14:30:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, well, no one is great at defending against missiles and rockets. There are some defenses, but they’re not perfect. I’m not judging at all, just answering the question, IMO, as to why Zelensky may be looking a bit down these days. Hard to be upbeat when your citizens are being killed, even if you are preventing more from being killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=98) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-2/973972.md?page=100)