# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/481 "2024-08-14T04:56:31Z")
Well, the nickname actually comes from the original BG series. > **[General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon)** > > The General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon is an American single-engine supersonic multirole fighter aircraft originally developed by General Dynamics for the United States Air Force (USAF). Designed as an air superiority day fighter, it evolved into a successful all-weather multirole aircraft with over 4,600 built since 1976. Although no longer purchased by the U.S. Air Force, improved versions are being built for export. In 1993, General Dynamics sold its aircraft manufacturing business to th... > [@](#): > > The F-16 was given its name of “Fighting Falcon” on 21 July 1980. Its pilots and crews often use the name “Viper” instead, because of a perceived resemblance to a [viper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viperidae) snake as well as to the fictional Colonial Viper [starfighter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfighter_(science_fiction)) from the television program _[Battlestar Galactica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(1978_TV_series))_, which aired at the time the F-16 entered service.[[41]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon#cite_note-EyeoftheViper_xxii-41)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting_Falcon#cite_note-FOOTNOTEPeacock1997100-7) I remember the two names both being used at the time. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/482 "2024-08-14T12:58:04Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > > [@gnoitall](#): > > > > Actually, first used in Iraq in Gulf War I. > > > > [Graphite bomb - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_bomb#Uses) > > They actually made a specialized bomb for this? What’s the matter with using the old-fashioned explode-a-canister-of-chaff-over-the-substation technique? Modern chaff is made of ultra-thin bits of mylar chopped up to resemble the aftermath of a man’s haircut. It would do exactly zero to a power station. Any chaff that happened to connect anything live would be vaporized by just a couple amps of power and the utility wouldn’t even notice the microscopic fluctuation in power flow. Besides that, any single piece of modern chaff is far too small physically to bridge the large air gaps between conductors running at different voltages or phases in any substation You may as well throw a handful of sawdust at a speeding locomotive and expect that mighty impact to stop it dead on the tracks. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/483 "2024-08-14T13:42:06Z")
Bringing it back around to the primary topic, I wonder what the Ukrainian pilots will call it? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/484 "2024-08-14T13:53:41Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > What’s the matter with using the old-fashioned explode-a-canister-of-chaff-over-the-substation technique? while there, why not explode a **“RealBomb ™”** at a substation and call it a day? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/485 "2024-08-14T13:56:45Z")
I assume that BLU-14Bs are a lot cheaper, and sometimes you don’t want to wreck stuff, you just want to mess it up just enough to knock it out of commission. Save the limited number\* of big booms for targets you sincerely want dead. \*Granted, it’s a large number, but still finite. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/486 "2024-08-14T14:33:22Z")
For a place you intend to soon occupy or liberate, not just destroy vandal-style (read “Putin-style”), doing mild damage that puts things out of commission for a few hours or days is better than destroying it completely when it’ll be your people putting it back together and dealing with the consequences until it is. e.g. During the opening of Desert Storm the various US attacks on Baghdad’s electrical system were intended to shut everything down for a few hours so the rest of the attack could occur in darkness and with maximum confusion and outages affecting the defenders. Yes, lots of important military nodes have backup generators. but not all, and not all are going to work when called upon. The US fully expected that real soon they’d be administrating Baghdad and any infrastructure damage there would be their problem. Which proved to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/487 "2024-08-14T15:17:40Z")
Two points I’ve surmised from listening/reading various expert takes. I might have oversimplified so may not be accurate. One of the objectives of this invasion was aimed solely at Washington. To show America the world wouldn’t end if Ukraine invaded Russia, and to get Washington to remove any restrictions it has on Ukraine/use of weapons, etc. So far, the Russian response has been laughable, and certainly no nukes, nothing dramatic. If true, Washington was probably not in on the planning of the invasion. I’ve heard the Brits were (_per a Guardian article_), and they do have a track record of planning independently (_whereas Germany would be more reluctant to help plan this without US approval_). Also, one “clean” way of hurting Russian morale is POWs. Especially if they are conscripts. Certainly helps with negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/488 "2024-08-14T15:44:24Z")
The other aspect is that it’s far easier to invade a place like Kursk than Crimea. Hence, getting Russia to swap Kursk back in return for Crimea would be a lot easier than actually invading Crimea itself. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/489 "2024-08-14T17:06:36Z")
ISTM the Ukrainians are quite capable of planning an invasion without deeply involved help. What is useful to them that only big powers like US or UK can provide is persistent overhead recon deep into enemy territory. To be able to say with confidence e.g. “The region for a few hundred kilometers deep around Laputa has a rather heavy presence of Russian military and internal security troops, whereas the region around Kursk has almost none.” That would inform Ukraine where along the border might be the most profitable place to strike. How and when with what can be left up to them. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/490 "2024-08-14T18:19:05Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Also, one “clean” way of hurting Russian morale is POWs. Especially if they are conscripts. Certainly helps with negotiations. Though not as “clean”, I’ve recently thought that snatching Russian civilians in the newly occupied areas, and bringing them back to heavily damaged parts of Ukraine for a “tour” (while being treated fairly and well) for a few weeks, and then returned to Russia, might be a useful tool. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/491 "2024-08-14T18:26:36Z")
I don’t know why you would condemn innocent Russian civilians to being executed by the Russian FSB or Russian military government in the conflict area for ~~knowing too much~~ colluding with the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/492 "2024-08-14T18:40:02Z")
That’s a good point that never occurred to me but should have. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/493 "2024-08-14T19:27:28Z")
Would be a good time for a PR campaign of “Stalin kept Kursk, Putin lost it.” ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/494 "2024-08-14T22:06:30Z")
Putin has lost Kursk _ **twice** _. The [first time at the very beginning of his reign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster), and he screwed that up big time (a mistake from which he later admittedly learned a lot). And now a second time, where he has forgotten the lessons learned 24 years ago. I see poetic justice at play here, but that may be my impartiality. Or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/495 "2024-08-14T22:58:01Z")
The BBC’s Russia correspondent, Steve Rosenberg, bought this up in an article today > **[Steve Rosenberg: Ukraine's advance undermines Putin's image as 'Mr Security'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/credw5q0705o)** > > Ukraine's incursion into Kursk raises questions about Mr Putin's ability to keep Russia safe. > **Kursk.** > > It is one of the first words I wrote and spoke as a BBC correspondent. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/496 "2024-08-15T00:20:49Z")
The _Kursk_ sinking having been a major naval tragedy on Putin’s watch adds another delicious layer of _Schadenfreude_ to the whole thing. > **[Kursk submarine disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster)** > > The Russian nuclear-powered Project 949A Antey (Oscar II class) submarine K-141 Kursk sank in an accident on 12 August 2000 in the Barents Sea. It was taking part in the first major Russian naval exercise in more than 10 years. All 118 personnel on board were killed. The crews of nearby ships felt an initial explosion and a second, much larger explosion, but the Russian Navy did not realise that an accident had occurred and did not initiate a search for the vessel for over six hours. The subma... The word _Kursk_ is definitely his personal Kryptonite. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/497 "2024-08-15T00:27:20Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The US fully expected that real soon they’d be administrating Baghdad and any infrastructure damage there would be their problem. Which proved to be the case. Well, not until 12 years later. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/498 "2024-08-15T01:43:53Z")
Thank you. Whoops. Bad terminology on my part. It was 22 days from the opening air raid when the USA invaded Iraq w intent to regime-change until the US was administering their erstwhile capital city. As you rightly say, that wasn’t Desert Storm. That was Iraqi Freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/499 "2024-08-15T14:39:29Z")
Time for someone to edit that near the end of the movie clip from “The Hunt for Red October” where the Soviet ambassador ask for help again “Vladimir, you’ve lost another Kursk?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/500 "2024-08-15T14:57:01Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > “Vladimir, you’ve lost another Kursk?” [Is this OK?](https://imgur.com/a/M4sqpcG) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=26)