# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/521 "2024-08-19T04:13:12Z")
No. The link to the automatic grenade launcher article. It has this table: [Automatic grenade launcher - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_grenade_launcher#Comparison) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/522 "2024-08-19T04:19:05Z")
I missed that link. I was looking at the varients section. Do infantry soldiers carry grenades anymore? The portable launcher is much more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/523 "2024-08-19T08:41:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Do infantry soldiers carry grenades anymore? The portable launcher is much more effective. Different purposes. Grenade launchers are direct fire only, while regular thrown grenades can be also used for indirect attacks - over a wall, into a foxhole, through a window, etc. Plus, to use a grenade launcher you have to carry both a grenade launcher and its ammo, while to use a regular grenade, all you have to carry is a grenade. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/524 "2024-08-19T14:13:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Do infantry soldiers carry grenades anymore? The portable launcher is much more effective. My son had to learn to throw grenades last month at Advance Training Camp. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/525 "2024-08-19T17:06:38Z")
I can see the advantage for an infantryman to carry grenades. It’s eerie waiting for the Russian response. Whatever they do to retaliate will probably be aimed at civilians. The Russian military’s tactics are brutal on a good day. Putin is embarrassed and pissed off now. Ukraine’s Kursk operation is still making impressive gains. I posted a link in the other thread. Ukraine has destroyed the only three bridges available for logistics. Leaving a pocket of Russian troops cutoff and almost encircled. This could be another big development in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/526 "2024-08-19T17:57:53Z")
Here’s a lot more on grenade launcher ammo. These are very common weapons dating back to WWII. > **[List of 40 mm grenades](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_40_mm_grenades)** > > This is a general collection of the world's many types of ammunition for grenade launchers in 40 mm (1.57 in) caliber. > Several countries have developed or adopted grenade launchers in 40 mm caliber. > NATO currently uses three standardized 40 mm grenade families: 40 mm low velocity (LV), 40 mm medium velocity (MV), and 40 mm high velocity (HV). Low- and medium-velocity cartridges are used for different hand-held grenade launchers, while the high-velocity cartridge is used for automatic grenade la... ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/527 "2024-08-19T18:07:45Z")
I’m wondering if maybe the Russian concept of land and territory is fundamentally different from that of the West. Russia may not actually care if Ukraine takes 1,000 square kilometers of land in Kursk if Russia can take 2,000 square kilometers of land in Donbass. Which is quite unlike the West - the United States, for instance, would never be okay with an enemy seizing and holding a chunk of California or Arizona even if the United States managed to get an equal or greater chunk of land elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/528 "2024-08-19T18:40:54Z")
I’d sooner believe that the Russian concept is simple: we will defeat the government of Ukraine entire. Then when their forces collapse, it won’t matter which land their former army was standing on. It’s _all_ ours now. 100% of pre-war Russia _and_ 100% of pre-war Ukraine. All Russian now and forever more. Yes, it’s a semi-fantasy based concept. But how long do you think Ukraine would last if the West is sufficiently stupid to elect trump and Le Pen and all the rest of the RW isolationist nationalist so beloved of Russian botnets and troll farms. And now suddenly NATO, the EU, and the USA all turn their back on supplying Ukraine? The Russians expect to win. The difference between them and the e.g. US is they don’t (now) expect to win quickly and that pace doesn’t really bother the government. And the people of Russia don’t get a chance to voice their opinions, assuming they had any. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/529 "2024-08-19T18:47:58Z")
[Russia is the largest country](https://www.worldometers.info/geography/largest-countries-in-the-world/) in the World (by area). Putin’s pride is bruised but the Kursk region is rural and not a significant percentage of Russia’s territory. I agree Russia is looking at the long game and knows the prize is Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/530 "2024-08-22T22:25:43Z")
Yeah, Daily Fail But the photos are real. Any bets on how long he’ll last in the Russian army? > **[Russian 'who was gored trying to rape a cow' faces being 'conscripted'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13768561/Russian-tourist-gored-trying-rape-cow-flight-attendant-dumped-faces-conscripted-fight-Putin-against-Ukraine.html)** > > Evgenii Kuvshinov, 26, is said to have stripped off and sidled over to a male bull before turning his attention to a female tied to a wooden fence in a field in Thailand last week. LOL sick bastard learned a hard lesson [https://youtu.be/aG3StVmL32Y?si=k2lDQ\_r6BvcGpJ8A](https://youtu.be/aG3StVmL32Y?si=k2lDQ_r6BvcGpJ8A) ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/531 "2024-08-22T23:18:52Z")
Thinking back to when there was that rebellion by Putin’s mercenaries (I don’t remember the guy’s name but I remember his plane exploding in mid-air shortly after he made up with Putin), is there any chance that Ukrainian forces could roll all the way to Moscow? As I recall from that brief rebellion, the rebels were going from the Ukrainian front towards Moscow and they did not encounter any significant opposition along the way. I feel like they got about halfway there in 24 hours or so but I could be totally off on this. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/532 "2024-08-22T23:22:46Z")
Yevgheny Prigozhin was the man leading the Wagner Group on that rebellion to Moscow. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely in the extreme that Ukrainian forces could get to Moscow. That would be another 500+ kilometers and Ukraine has already been moving only relatively slowly in Kursk despite its best efforts. Any serious indication of Ukrainian thrust towards Moscow and Russia would really pull out all of the stops to thwart it, not to mention that Ukrainian supply lines would be unsustainable long before that. Russia has not gotten to Kyiv in 2.5 years of fighting; it’s hard to see how Ukrainians could get to Moscow. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2024, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/533 "2024-08-25T10:43:33Z")
Viktor Orban is heroically standing up to the Ukrainian bullies who are picking on poor defenseless Russia. /s > **[Hungary wants Ukraine to stop its counter-incursion into Russia - Euromaidan...](https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/08/23/hungary-wants-ukraine-to-stop-its-counter-incursion-into-russia/)** > > Hungary's government spokesman Gulyás calls for a ceasefire in Ukraine's Kursk operation, urging both sides to protect what he calls Europe's energy security, implying Russia's gas and oil supplies to Hungary, Slovakia, and other countries. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/534 "2024-08-26T14:13:03Z")
Moving the discussion about last nights huge missile attack to here for discussion. > **[Ukraine war latest: Explosions in Kyiv as all of Ukraine on alert after...](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cvg58p0d55dt)** > > Three people have been killed, Ukrainian officials say, with blackouts in parts of the country and Kyiv residents sheltering in metro stations. What could NATO do to shoot down some of the missiles? I know Poland has tentatively suggested the ones crossing their territory could be targeted. How about NATO warships intercepting missiles that cross NATO territory? It doesn’t make sense to spend hundreds of millions in military aid when Ukraine is being blasted into the stone age. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/535 "2024-08-26T14:17:51Z")
I hope that very few of the Russian missiles cross NATO airspace, and mostly do so mistakenly. It comes pretty close to a _casus belli_! What can NATO do to help Ukraine? Give them more Patriot missiles (I know, they are very expensive and in short supply – and we may need them ourselves) and let them use the Western weapons they have against Russian territory. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/536 "2024-08-26T14:22:32Z")
Ultimately the Russian airfields will have to be targeted with more than drones. Ukraine has the capability whenever NATO gives the go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/537 "2024-08-26T14:34:46Z")
It has taken Ukraine 18 months to develop their own long range missile / drone (they seem to use both words, it is some kind of hybrid). This is _ **Palianytsia** _, named after a type of Ukrainian bread and a word so notoriously difficult to pronounce correctly that it was used to unmask suspected spies early in the war: > **[Ukraine counts on new long-range weapon to bypass Western restrictions and...](https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-long-range-missile-palianytsia-1f0a1eaf560bb2c1fd70ddd56a39968d)** > > Ukraine says it has a new homegrown long-range weapon that will allow it to strike deep into Russia without asking permission from allies. From the article: > A Ukrainian military video hinted that its range is up to 700 kilometers (430 miles) — on par with the U.S.-supplied ATACMS. It showed a map with various airfields, including Russia’s Savasleyka air base, which lies within that range, adding that the Palianytsia can reach at least 20 Russian airfields. > One of the specialists involved in the long-range missile project said it was “a completely new development, from scratch” that began about 18 months ago. > […] > “This is not an extension of an old Soviet project,” said the specialist, speaking on condition of anonymity to safeguard the project’s secrecy. The missile has a solid-fuel booster that accelerates it, followed by a jet engine, the specialist said. What I did not find is the load this new missile / drone can carry. And the range is a guesstimate. More information will surface in due time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/538 "2024-08-26T14:55:56Z")
That could be a solution if Ukraine can the missiles into full production. Ukraine should only target military installations in Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/539 "2024-08-26T15:03:37Z")
Ukraine also has the Neptune, which they’ve adapted for land attack roles. If the US is concerned about US weapons being used in Russia, perhaps they could fund and/or help build Ukrainian domestic long range missiles. Might be difficult having Raytheon clandestinely stand up Neptune production, but I imagine something can be done. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/540 "2024-08-26T17:27:25Z")
Russia’s poor command & control has been its undoing in the war with Ukraine. Their military often shoot themselves in the ass. But not with Glide bombs in Kursk. 😉 I assume Cancian is referring to the [fire support specialist](https://www.army.mil/article/182107/fire_support_specialists_are_eyes_of_field_artillery) in the US military? Their skills are crucial for artillery and close air support. Link [Russia Not Using Many Glide Bombs in Kursk As Could Hit Self: Expert - Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-not-using-glide-bombs-kursk-hit-self-ukraine-expert-2024-8) > [@](#): > > Mark Cancian, a retired Marine Corps colonel and a senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said Russia hadn’t been seen heavily using air power or glide bombs against Ukrainian forces in Kursk. > > “I think that’s a reflection of a weak air-control system,” he said. > > While the US and NATO “have very sophisticated mechanisms” and a “very elaborate, well-trained system” between aircraft and a control center to ensure they don’t hit anything friendly, that’s not the case for Russia, he added. > The US is “pretty good at it,” Cancian said, but “the Russians are not.” > Cancian said that Russia is able to heavily use glide bombs in Ukraine because the front is static and largely unmoving, so Russia can get away with a weaker control system and inflict less unintended damage > [@](#): > > Fire support specialists integrate any asset that isn’t already a part of a maneuver (ground) commander’s unit, such as aviation and artillery. They also advise the commander on how they can synchronize these assets into their maneuver operations, DeGracia said. In joint operations these assets can include Naval gun bombardment and Air Force air support. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=28)