# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/541 "2024-08-26T17:37:15Z")
Been thinking about the long-term picture of Russia as opposed to short-term. Russia has long been facing a demographic crisis, but the deaths of 600,000 Russian men isn’t going to have that much of an impact given that the reproduction bottleneck of any society is women, not men. What needs to be done to encourage and exacerbate the demographic crisis would be for there to be a significant exodus of Russian women in childbearing age, i.e., 20-45. The West would need to offer some sort of incentive for such women to leave Russia en masse. The loss of a million such women would do far greater damage to Russia long-term than a million dead Russian men. The West would also need to take indirect measures to ensure that the cost of raising or starting a family in Russia is as high as possible, in order to further discourage couples in Russia from having kids and thus exacerbate the demographic crisis. Unfortunately, the true effects of such an approach wouldn’t be felt for years or decades, so it wouldn’t exert much immediate pressure on Putin. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/542 "2024-08-27T15:30:22Z")
Ukraine should copy Russia and start administering Kursk. Change the school curriculum, change all the signs, and flags. 😉 Put up photos of Volodymyr Zelenskiy in all the government buildings. Make themselves at home. Welcome to Ukraine. 😀 I realize Ukraine doesn’t want that responsibility. They probably are only liaisoning with local officials and police. Otherwise they continue day to day governing? I wonder how that works for school teachers, firemen, patrol officers, and postmen? Do they just go to work as usual in an occupied town? Russia is a well established country with local governments and they provide services. Arrest the burglars, put out fires and deliver mail. The children still have to study math and science. Take tests. Ukraine took many settlements with little fighting. Life goes on with a new Sheriff in town. The Guardian live > [@](#): > > Ukraine’s top general **Oleksandr Syrskyi** said that [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) had captured 594 Russian servicemen during its operation in the Kursk region, disclosing that figure for the first time. > > Ukraine has also captured 100 settlements during its three-week long incursion, he said. Moscow’s troops were trying to counterattack in the area and encircle Kyiv’s forces, but those attempts were being repelled, he added. The Guardian could not independently verify the figures provided by Syrskyi. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/543 "2024-08-28T03:39:54Z")
Is Russia’s response to the Kursk offensive lacking? I haven’t seen much in the news about it. Any ideas why they still haven’t mustered forces to respond? Or have they and I missed it? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/544 "2024-08-28T03:50:28Z")
IMO they’ve decided that gaining the strategic hub of Pokrovsk is worth the loss of militarily valueless territory near Kursk, and don’t care about their citizens there nor the conscripts and ex-cons they are losing there. And Putin judges his position is not imperilled. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/545 "2024-08-28T18:40:10Z")
Careful about avoiding incoming drones – you could get a traffic ticket: > **[Trying to outrun Ukrainian drones? Kursk traffic cams still issue speeding...](https://arstechnica.com/culture/2024/08/trying-to-outrun-ukrainian-drones-kursk-traffic-cams-still-issue-speeding-tickets/)** > > Drones are everywhere. Traffic cameras don't care. Brian ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/546 "2024-08-28T19:02:32Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Careful about avoiding incoming drones – you could get a traffic ticket: No THAT’s funny. Take THAT Russia. Talk about unexpected consequences. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/547 "2024-08-29T12:07:21Z")
I think its good strategy to request permission to specifically bomb _Russian Airfields_. It’s one small step in escalation. Ukraine already has permission to bomb Russian military targets close to the border. I feel it was unwise to request additional missiles _specifically_ to bomb Russian airfields. That puts NATO into a bad situation. It gives a bad impression that Ukraine is blatantly bombing Russia by proxy. Ukraine can use existing stocks from Military Aid that will quietly be restocked at a later date. Semantics matter. Don’t start a war between NATO and Russia. Guardian Live feed > [@](#): > > Ukraine has stepped up calls for permission to use western-supplied weapons against military targets inside Russia. > > Ahead of a meeting with his EU counterparts in Brussels, Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said long-term security for [Europe](https://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news) began with “short-term bold decisions for Ukraine”. > > **Ukraine wanted permission to use western weapons to strike “legitimate military targets” in the depths of [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia), mainly airfields used to launch bombers, he said.** > > “If we are supplied with a sufficient amount of missiles, if we are allowed to strike we will significantly decrease the capacity of Russia to inflict damage on our critical infrastructure and we will improve the situation for our forces on the ground.” ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/548 "2024-08-29T12:22:29Z")
i think it might be a matter of just “shuffling around weapon systems” … i.e. using western missiles within the 2014 borders against RU and keeping those UKR drones/missiles for strikes on 2014 RU territory. Not sure how good the UKR systems are compared to the UK/FR/USA Cruise Missile ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/549 "2024-08-29T13:12:20Z")
I was surprised Dmytro Kuleba only mentioned Russian Airfields and didn’t include Air Defense installations. Ukraine is already hitting Russian weapons depots with drones. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/550 "2024-08-29T18:42:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I was surprised Dmytro Kuleba only mentioned Russian Airfields and didn’t include Air Defense installations. Remember that the old “fixed” missile defense systems on concrete pads are mostly extinct. These days missile systems are either semi-mobile (older Russian/Ukrainians systems) or fully mobile (newer Russian/Ukrainian systems, including all the most lethal long-range systems like the S-300/400/500 family). You can reliably guess at point air defenses being present at various must-be-defended points, like say major military facilities and the slow to pack up old semi-mobile systems are pretty vulnerable (the oldest Ukrainian systems took a shellacking in the first days of the war). But in general hunting the modern fully mobile air defense systems requires some elaborate triangulation often based on back-tracking missile launches and air defense radar illumination, because they don’t just squat at the same spot every day. This was the point of the whole ‘Wild Weasel’ SEAD system. In the worst case scenario (plenty of decent roads and directions to take) it’s roughly analogous to surface ships hunting for submarines. This is just way harder for Ukraine to pull off with a handful of planes. By contrast air fields don’t move. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/551 "2024-08-29T18:50:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > installations. > > Remember that the old “fixed” missile defense systems on concrete pads are mostly extinct. These days missile systems are either semi-mobile (older Russian/Ukrainians systems) or fully mobile (newer Russian/Ukrainian systems, including all the most lethal long-range systems like the S-300/400/500 family) You make very good points that I hadn’t considered. IIRC Doesn’t an air defense system expose themselves when they light up a plane with radar? I don’t know the exact terminology. You explained it better in your post I understand why they have to be mobile. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/552 "2024-08-29T19:44:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > IIRC Doesn’t an air defense system expose themselves when they light up a plane with radar? I don’t know the exact terminology. You explained it better in your post That was the basis of the Wild Weasel program: > **[Wild Weasel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel)** > > Wild Weasel is a code name given by the United States Air Force (USAF) to an aircraft of any type equipped with anti-radiation missiles and tasked with the suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD): destroying the radar and surface-to-air missile (SAM) installations of enemy air defense systems. The task of a Wild Weasel aircraft is to bait enemy anti-aircraft defenses into targeting it with their radars, whereupon the radar waves are traced back to their source, allowing the Weasel or its t Th... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/553 "2024-08-31T19:11:50Z")
Damn, I wish Washington would stop chopping off Ukraine’s legs. The complex maintenance schedule for the F-16 has been discussed here before. It was a key objection to giving Ukraine the planes. It won’t be long before poor maintenance will result in crashes and that will hit the news. The F-16’s are a crucial part of Ukraine’s military. They’re in short supply. The hangers would be kept secret and well protected. The contractors should be able to decide if they want to take the risk. That’s usually true of any work they do in hostile environments. Reading between the lines, I guess 🤔 security was breached. That could be why [Zelenskyy canned his Air Force Commander.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/8/30/zelenskyy-fires-ukraines-air-force-commander-after-deadly-f-16-crash) Guardian live feed > [@](#): > > The US has decided against a proposal to deploy American contractors to [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) to maintain Western military equipment, including F-16 fighter jets. > > A Wall Street Journal report carried by Euromaiden stated that the Biden administration elected not to send contractors due to safety concerns, after Ukraine lost the first F-16 fighter jet it received from Western allies earlier this month. > > On August 28, Ukrainian General Staff confirmed that it had been lost during combat operations against Russian forces. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/554 "2024-08-31T23:28:47Z")
one rumor that is circulating is that the AF-Commander was sacked b/c the F-16 came down due to friendly fire. we should get the answer (true/false), eventually ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/555 "2024-09-01T09:03:57Z")
Nicolás Maduro, who is clinging to power by all means despite having almost certainly lost the Presidential Elections in Venezuela a couple of weeks ago is showing his deference to Putin by extraditing two Colombians, José Medina and Alejandro Ante, to Russia. Both fought in Ukraine and are accused by Russia of being mercenaries: > **[Maduro’s gift to Putin: 2 mercenaries who fought for Ukraine extradited to...](https://www.politico.eu/article/maduro-putin-russia-arrest-two-colombians-fighting-ukraine-venezuela/)** > > The Colombians joined a foreign legion in Ukraine in summer 2023. Now they’re jailed in Moscow after being captured in Caracas. From the link: > On Wednesday, a Moscow court placed the men in pre-trial detention in Moscow’s high-security Lefortovo prison while they are investigated for paid participation in an armed conflict, which in Russia carries a maximum sentence of up to 15 years behind bars. […] > Russia, meanwhile, is itself actively recruiting mercenaries abroad for its own war effort against Ukraine, including [in Cuba](https://www.politico.eu/article/cuban-mercenaries-join-russian-army-ukraine-war/) and India, with promises of sky-high salaries and fast-tracked Russian citizenship. > > The Russian state also maintains close links to Russian mercenary groups, such as [Wagner](https://www.politico.eu/article/new-wagner-russian-mercenary-group-recruits-prigozhins-ex-fighters-redut/), which — as well as fighting in Ukraine — is especially active in Africa. I guess Americans enjoy protection against extradition from the USA to a foreign country, specially Russia? Let’s hope that protection holds in future. But for the moment I would be very careful not to set on foot in Caracas airport, just in case of trumped up charges. Hostages are useful to Putin. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/556 "2024-09-01T12:15:19Z")
I started my career as a programmer at a university. I can fully appreciate the complexities of this project. This team stepped up and got it done. They even set up a test environment to work out any bugs in the code. I hadn’t considered that the F-16’s in different nations use tailored EW programming for their unique airspace. That adaptability shows the care and foresight that went into designing the planes decades ago. It’s why they can still fly and perform so well against modern planes. > **[How USAF Helped Ukraine Upgrade Its F-16 Electronic Warfare](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ukraine-f-16-electronic-warfare-us-air-force/)** > > The U.S. Air Force’s 350th Spectrum Warfare Wing helped reprogram the electronic warfare systems on the F-16 fighters donated to Ukraine. > [@](#): > > Led by the 68th Electronic Warfare Squadron, the work required a great deal of adaptability since the USAF specialists had to learn an unfamiliar EW system and then optimize it, relying on data from Denmark and Norway. > > “Most reprogramming centers would have said ‘no way’ when approaching this challenge; it’s uncharted policy,” the 68th Electronic Warfare Squadron chief engineer, who was not named, said in the release. > > The Air Force said it developed new processes and approaches to understand the EW system that is installed on the F-16s and reprogram it to counter against Russian threats. The improved system was then tested in a “partner-nation lab” along with “coalition teammates” according to the release. The aim was to “test and verify the unique elements required by the Ukrainians” of its F-16s. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/557 "2024-09-01T15:21:54Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I would be very careful not to set on foot in Caracas airport, just in case of trumped up charges Venezuela has a level 4 ‘do not travel’ advisory in the US. If you have to travel there some of the recommendations are ‘make a will’ and ‘Establish a “proof of life” protocol with your loved ones’. Similar to the Ukraine advisory. > **[Venezuela Travel Advisory](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/venezuela-travel-advisory.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/558 "2024-09-02T00:36:44Z")
On a lighter note: My mom recently returned from a trip to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Finland. She reports that Lithuania has renamed the street that the Russian embassy is on to “Ukrainian Heroes Street”, and the building on the other side of the street bears a mural of a skeletonized Putin. Their tour also included a stop close enough to the Russian border to flip the bird to Russia, and a stop at a workshop where they helped make camouflaged netting for use by the Ukrainian army. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/559 "2024-09-02T00:49:46Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I guess Americans enjoy protection against extradition from the USA to a foreign country, specially Russia? AIUI, the United States can/does extradite American citizens who are dual citizens, but only if they are citizens of the nation requesting extradition. So, for instance, if a US-Irish dual citizen were wanted in America for crimes committed in Ireland, the U.S. government might send him to Ireland. But I can’t picture any scenario where the U.S. would do such a favor for Russia, even if it were an American-Russian dual citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/560 "2024-09-02T08:13:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … > > > [@](#): > > > > … > > The Air Force said it developed new processes and approaches to understand the EW system that is installed on the F-16s and reprogram it to counter against Russian threats. … Wait a moment - does that mean that Russia as a potential adversary had at some point been struck from the requirements list for maintenance of the F-16 software? I always assumed US-made aircraft would automatically come with software to deal with current Russian weapons systems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=29)