# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/41 "2024-01-08T18:23:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > all those bullets land someplace. I thought of that, so I didn’t mention it. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > If this drone observation stuff is occurring within training ground land controlled by the government, those restraining concerns largely drop away. I didn’t consider that. But you’re right. Most military installations I’ve been to have had a lot of acreage. ([Los Angeles Air Force Base](https://www.google.com/maps/search/Los+Angeles+Air+Force+Station/@33.9179062,-118.3876621,2788m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), not so much. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/42 "2024-01-08T18:27:50Z")
I know there’s some kind of anti-drone rifle the Russians are using, but how common are they? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/43 "2024-01-08T19:44:21Z")
a great opportunity for counter-drone defense training sessions … see what works best … the electronic jammers, or a bigger drone dragging around some sort of chains or webbing to take the other drone out … or drop gravel from above or or or… iow: a great free learning experience … ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/44 "2024-01-08T19:53:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I didn’t consider that. But you’re right. Most military installations I’ve been to have had a lot of acreage. Anywhere they’re practicing driving large formations of armored vehicles around probably has some elbow room. LAAFS, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/45 "2024-01-08T19:55:39Z")
There are a lot of systems developed to counter drones. [Here’s one](https://www.unmannedairspace.info/latest-news-and-information/uninvited-guest-detected-highly-capable-and-cost-effective-new-counter-uas/) which seems like it uses multiple sensors to locate not just the drone but also the pilot location. Might be tougher to use in a war but pretty good for static area coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/46 "2024-01-08T19:55:52Z")
I would expect that any nation’s military bases would be considered at least somewhat sensitive sites, and that they’d have policies against surveillance, and would shoot down drones on sight (presumably with small arms; it’s not like these things are armored). No matter who they belong to, nobody’s supposed to be snooping around there. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/47 "2024-01-08T22:00:01Z")
They’re hard to hit w small arms; need lotta fire by lotta barrels to get lucky enough. And in general you’re shooting from your on-base land towards the general public. AFAIK drone-stopping in peacetime is not yet a solved problem. Mitigated some? Sure. Solved? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/48 "2024-01-09T03:31:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > They’re hard to hit w small arms; need lotta fire by lotta barrels to get lucky enough. Use shotguns. Just like hunting birds. And that is what the Ukrainians and Russians are using in the war. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/49 "2024-01-09T04:48:32Z")
Yeah, that was my first thought on hearing this news. It seems like a cloud of bird shot would take out most copter style drones quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/50 "2024-01-09T14:56:59Z")
[According to wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell#:~:text=Shotguns%20have%20an%20effective%20range,and%20release%20a%20gas%20payload.) the effective range of a shotgun is about 50 yds with birdshot. You sure don’t need to fly a drone that low to have effective observation or to drop a grenade. > Shotguns have an [effective range](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_range) of about 35 m (38 yd) with [buckshot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckshot), 45 m (49 yd) with [birdshot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdshot), 100 m (110 yd) with slugs, and well over 150 m (160 yd) with saboted slugs in [rifled barrels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_barrel) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/51 "2024-01-09T15:14:11Z")
That’s assuming the target is an animal. If you hit a duck with 2-3 pellets, it’s going to keep on trucking unless you’re very lucky. Hit the rotors of most quad copters with 2-3 pellets, and it’s probably not going to remain airborne for long. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/52 "2024-01-09T19:39:54Z")
yes, but the main problem stands: with today’s great and inexpensive optics every decent $xxx.00 drone can easily stay out of harms way, once shotguns become established anti-drone weapons … while still making great videos and photos ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/53 "2024-01-09T19:56:53Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > You sure don’t need to fly a drone that low to have effective observation or to drop a grenade. The higher the drone, the less accurate the bombing will be. And since the drones have nothing like a bombsight, I expect their accuracy is abysmal when they have to stay out of shotgun range. At any rate, shotguns are probably used more against the so-called kamakazi drones that have to impact their targets. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/54 "2024-01-09T20:05:54Z")
Don’t the authorities have the kind of electronics tech that would allow them to trace a short range consumer drone back to it’s controller? Just send the cops to arrest the spies. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/55 "2024-01-09T21:17:23Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Don’t the authorities have the kind of electronics tech that would allow them to trace a short range consumer drone back to it’s controller? ‘That would be telling.’ ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/56 "2024-01-09T22:30:45Z")
I don’t think military facilities have drone-tracking hardware on hot standby all over their peripheries, assuming they have it at all. So it becomes a question of response time: someone notices a drone in protected airspace and calls security, security dispatches someone with a drone tracker, looks for and maybe finds the drone, and if they do, do their magic and get… what, coordinates?.. to call the off-base cop shop to respond to the report of someone using a drone at this approximate location, civvie cops (who probably give less than one shit about the base) mosey down, maybe find someone, and do… what? Flying a drone isn’t against any law and your local beat cops aren’t deputized to enforce federal restrictions on drone operations. Nothing happens. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/57 "2024-01-09T22:42:23Z")
This is all happening in Germany, not Texas but your point probably stands net of the local accent. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/58 "2024-01-10T22:27:35Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Flying a drone isn’t against any law I’d question that … MilBases and Airports surely have limitations on flying a drone on/close to premises ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/59 "2024-01-10T22:35:27Z")
Local police aren’t obligated to enforce that kind of thing, AFAIK. Jurisdiction is a thing, and local police are a different jurisdiction than any federal agency that controls civilian airfield or any military authority that is responsible for a base. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/60 "2024-01-10T22:43:57Z")
The German army is not the best prepared army in the world, and protecting installations and/or [people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcFiMCMbUHo) (OK, the link is to an incident 10 years ago, but the situation has not improved as far as I can tell) against drones is an unsolved problem so far. I hope they improve in time, but I will not be holding my breath. Meanwhile, in Russia itself: it is cold! > **[Russia’s fabled war ally ‘General Frost’ turns on Moscow](https://www.politico.eu/article/russias-beloved-war-propaganda-ally-general-frost-turns-on-moscow/)** > > A favorite Russian military myth is that winter is always on their side but thousands are freezing at home. Won’t shed a tear. It would freeze anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=4)