# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/882 "2025-03-01T02:22:12Z")
I thought China was still doing a lot of business with Russia? No? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/883 "2025-03-01T02:43:11Z")
I thought so too, but it wouldn’t be the first time a country sold arms to both sides in a conflict. Plus with this sudden huge rift in the Western alignments it opens the door for China to expand its influence. I’m not predicting this will happen, but I do expect China will be weighing all avenues for taking advantage of the fluid situation. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/884 "2025-03-01T03:03:18Z")
It’s a more reliable and controllable “new Silk Road” route to Europe. Pop a line from Atyrau through to Ukraine , and “leasing” Volgograd routes in the middle , and they have a controllable route to Europe without the diversion north to Moscow or southern routes via Iran . Not a lot of complex physical geography to get through that way if you already have the routes via khazakstan. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/885 "2025-03-01T05:21:47Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Of course, but their prize is to replace the US as the leaders of the ~~free~~ world I’m now seeing _Blade Runner_’s Los Angeles in my head. (Although it seemed more Japanese, it was a bit of a melange.) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/886 "2025-03-01T08:21:45Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > What odds the Chinese offer to fund and equip Ukraine in place of the USA? Very low, I’d imagine. China is not altruistic or remotely concerned with the machinations of tyrants, China has no particular stake in maintaining geopolitical stability in Europe (possibly the opposite in some respects) and Russia is a far more strategic and valuable economic partner (both actual and potential) than Ukraine. Perhaps most importantly China nurses their own irredentist claims that are on the exact opposite side of the continent from Russia’s. Far better to shrug about Russia’s backyard in Ukraine, Moldova and the Baltics, while they eye Taiwan. I mean sure there is Russian Manchuria, but going in the direction of Vladivostok might well trigger a nuclear response. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/887 "2025-03-01T12:33:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > China has no particular stake in maintaining geopolitical stability in Europe (possibly the opposite in some respects) and Russia is a far more strategic and valuable economic partner (both actual and potential) than Ukraine. China would support Ukraine in order to keep Russia weak. Because of the ongoing war, Russia does not have access to western markets and is dependent on markets in the Chinese sphere of influence. Whenever Russia gets uppity, give Ukraine more war material. There’s also the fact that the Russian Far East was historically in the Chinese sphere of influence, which was annexed by Russia when China was at a geopolitical low. Maybe it’s payback time. Edited to add: The geopolitical apple cart is upset. With the U.S. openly siding with Russian expansionism, China is going find a way to keep that axis from strengthening. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/888 "2025-03-01T13:46:25Z")
I believe Europe will have to bear the burdon of supporting Ukraine. I’m extremely embarrassed that the US President is trying to take Ukraine’s mineral rights without any firm security degrees. Imho this is nothing more than a shell game. Take Ukraine’s wealth and abandon them to Russian expansion. I am surprised Putin isn’t outraged at the potential loss of minerals that he’s spent 3 years trying to take through invasion and now a bloody war. Putin fully expected to control nearly all of Ukraine within weeks. So far, the European supports appears solid. > **[European leaders rally behind Zelensky after Trump clash](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9n5jq42pdo)** > > The Ukrainian president thanks European leaders for their support after a flurry of messages on social media. The transcript of this discussion is very informative and recommended. > **[Historian analyzes devolving relations between U.S. and Ukraine after Oval...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/historian-analyzes-devolving-relations-between-u-s-and-ukraine-after-oval-office-spat)** > > President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy argued in the Oval Office in a stunning public display of devolving relations. Geoff Bennett discussed the developments with Timothy Snyder, one of the country's leading historians of Eastern Europe... ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/889 "2025-03-01T17:17:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > So far, the European supports appears solid. Yes, most European leaders have continued to make speeches supporting Ukraine. But speeches are not enough: Ukraine requires weapons and money–and Europe has not been willing or able to supply enough of these to Ukraine. As to mineral rights I doubt if they are all that valuable: if they were they would already be being mined. So while they exist the minerals are expensive to extract–and the world is extracting from cheaper sources first. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/890 "2025-03-01T17:40:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I am surprised Putin isn’t outraged at the potential loss of minerals that he’s spent 3 years trying to take through invasion and now a bloody war. Putin fully expected to control nearly all of Ukraine within weeks. What makes you think that even if trump gets everything he wants from Ukraine, that that still won’t amount to Putin having, or at least controlling, those resources. Dictator trump is a _de facto_ Russian stooge even if by some wild chance he doesn’t yet recognize that that’s what he is. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/891 "2025-03-02T18:39:49Z")
A lot of news in the Guardian Live feed. I admire King Charles decision to meet with President Zelenskyy and release photos. It takes some of the sting out of his treatment at the White House. I remember things President Zelenskyy said and did right after the Russian invasion. People were saying he had tremendous courage and determination. _Brass Balls_ That was on display again in the Oval Office. Zelenskyy was trying to be respecful, but Trump & Vance wanted to intimidate him in front of the press. It didn’t work. That’s the sign of a man with character. [Starmer says ‘we are at a crossroads in history’ as he announces additional £1.6bn package for Ukraine – live | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/02/ukraine-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy-keir-starmer-donald-trump-us-europe-eu-russia-defence-latest-live-news?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with%3Ablock-67c4a0708f08707b9b405b89#block-67c4a0708f08707b9b405b89) > [@](#): > > **Canada’s Trudeau backs Zelenskyy’s comments** > Trudeau offers his strong backing for Ukraine’s Zelenskyy when asked what he thought of the way the Ukrainian leader was treated during the talks with the US administration in the Oval Office on Friday. > > Here is what he said: > > It’s important at every chance we get to lay out the facts as clearly as possible. > > In 2014 Russia chose to invade Ukraine, to occupy Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine. For that, they were kicked out of the G7 and in 2022 they chose to violate the existing cease fire and invaded Ukraine with the intention of taking Kyiv in three days and the entire country in three weeks. > > That has failed. > > Russia continues to try to fight to claim more land in Ukraine. > > We could see an end to this war tomorrow if Russia decided to stop its illegal invasion of Ukraine. > > On Friday in the Oval Office, President Zelensky pointed out in so many words that Vladimir Putin is a liar and a criminal and cannot be trusted to keep his word in any way, shape or form, because he has demonstrated time and time again that he will break any agreements. > > I stand with Vladimir Zelensky and I stand with the people of Ukraine ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/892 "2025-03-02T21:20:21Z")
Anyone remember reading about the 1938 Munich agreement? > **[Munich Agreement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement)** > > The Munich Agreement\[a\] was an agreement reached in Munich on 30 September 1938, by Nazi Germany, the United Kingdom, the French Republic, and Fascist Italy. The agreement provided for the German annexation of part of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland, where more than three million people, mainly ethnic Germans, lived. The pact is also known in some areas as the Munich Betrayal (Czech: Mnichovská zrada; Slovak: Mníchovská zrada), because of a previous 1924 alliance agreement and a 1925 Ger... And in March, 1939 Hitler reneged on his promises and invaded the rest of the country. I see exactly the same thing happening with Trump’s “Peace” proposal for Ukraine–with Russia taking over the currently occupied areas, taking maybe a year to replenish its weapons–and then invading the rest of the country. This is why security guarantees are absolutely essential–such as Ukraine joining Nato, or tens of thousands of Western troops in Ukraine. But of course Trump isn’t interested in providing security guarantees. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/893 "2025-03-02T23:44:26Z")
Even he understands the need for bargaining chips at the table. Trump has always seen himself as a deal maker. It’s part of his identity. But making deals with Putin is dangerous. > **[Trump Extends National Emergency on Ukraine and Sanctions Against Russia -...](https://eutoday.net/trump-extends-sanctions-against-russia/)** > > The associated sanctions against Russia will also remain in effect for another year, extending until 6 March 2026. The executive order formalising this > [@](#): > > The national emergency was first declared on 6 March 2014 by Executive Order 13660 under the administration of then-President Barack Obama. It was introduced in response to actions that were deemed to undermine Ukraine’s sovereignty, democratic processes, and territorial integrity. Since then, successive US presidents have expanded and reinforced these measures. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/894 "2025-03-03T01:05:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Even he understands the need for bargaining chips at the table. I wonder who told him to do that? Trump isn’t that astute. He _believes_ the Russians think he’s awesome, because they’ve been telling him so for forty years. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/895 "2025-03-03T01:38:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Even he understands the need for bargaining chips at the table. Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence. He sees himself as a deal maker, sure. But that self-image is wholly inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2025, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/896 "2025-03-03T12:51:48Z")
He’s a bully, not a deal-maker. Up against a better bully like Putin or Xi he didn’t stand much of a chance even before his senility set in. Now? He’s a walk-over. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/897 "2025-03-04T22:09:45Z")
It’s just one company, but I salute them for putting their money where their mouth is on this issue. Not refueling American ships has to be a blow to the bottom line. > **[Norwegian fuel supplier refuses U.S. warships over Ukraine](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/norwegian-fuel-supplier-refuses-u-s-warships-over-ukraine/)** > > Haltbakk Bunkers will cease supplying fuel to U.S. forces in Norway and American ships docking in Norwegian ports, citing dissatisfaction with recent U.S. policy towards Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/898 "2025-03-05T02:42:41Z")
“Dissatisfaction” is such a weak weaselly word for their stance, especially in light of what they actually said. > In a strongly worded statement, the company criticised a televised event involving U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance, referring to it as the “biggest shitshow ever presented live on TV.” > > Haltbakk Bunkers praised Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for his restraint, accusing the U.S. of “putting on a backstabbing TV show” and declaring that the spectacle “made us sick.” ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/899 "2025-03-05T10:14:56Z")
I’m confounded Zelensky still will sign this “deal” with one of the least trustworthy “deal-makers” ever and I remember him from the late 80’s in New York. And wasn’t Trump now holding out for an apology, probably one starting with “Sir”?. It’s just money and Zelensky has another thing coming if Trump promises a real, true, fingers-crossed guaranteed ceasefire/end. Plus the USA contractors and special Ops in hardhat “supervisors” will be open-pit mining all over Ukraine till it reaches 9 figures of _profit_. I did like Zelensky’s shirt which turns out has a “Ukraine Trident” on it. Ukraine used to have a number of ports and quite a bit of coastal land. Now if you want to meet Neptune, there’s a little corridor near Odessa. I expected Putin to blow that city up too and in Putin’s reasoning there’s certainly no benevolent or sentimental nostalgic reasons it was for the most part unscathed. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/900 "2025-03-05T16:59:18Z")
Given that the US has now “paused” giving Ukraine any intelligence, it may well be a delaying tactic to get resumption of that and military aid. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2025, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/901 "2025-03-06T11:03:37Z")
Yes, Trump needs to resume giving them intelligence. Hopefully not the mono-syllabic one page 32 point font briefings he didn’t bother to read anyway. If Keir Starmer allows the MI-6 to provide real intelligence, Trump will ask, “That guy with the beaufiful accent who was here last week?” All I want to hear is I’m going to Scotland to meet the King!" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=46)