# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1102 "2025-08-18T00:36:24Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’d love to be a fly on the wall during Mondays White House meeting. I think it’s going to get heated. It could, but only if Trump is very determined to make it go there. Consider: [How Starmer taught Zelensky to speak Trump](https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/starmer-taught-zelensky-speak-trump-151733548.html) > [@](#): > > Sir Keir’s inner circle believe – with some evidence to back up their case – that they have sussed out the best strategy . . . > > heap as much praise on Mr Trump in public as is possible and use your influence behind the scenes to nudge him into a position that best suits your national interests. > > It is notable how Sir Keir’s statement after Mr Trump’s Alaskan huddle with Vladimir Putin was not one of condemnation but praise at the White House’s attempt to secure peace. > > “President Trump’s efforts have brought us closer than ever before to ending Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine,” read the first line of the Starmer statement issued on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1103 "2025-08-18T00:39:24Z")
He means to go on the offensive and recover a bunch of territory from the Russians. They haven’t engaged in anything significant in that regard since the invasion of Kursk last summer, and the last time they recovered significant territory in Ukraine was the Kherson counteroffensive in late 2022. There was a significant attempt at a counteroffensive in the Zaporizhzhia region in summer 2023, but it didn’t achieve anything significant. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1104 "2025-08-18T01:56:52Z")
Well, sure, but they’re not trying to do that. They’re trying to win the war, and they’re not going to be able to do that using the same strategies that Russia is using to lose it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1105 "2025-08-18T02:03:55Z")
Maybe. Ukraine wins when Russia has a new government and returns to the 2000-era borders. And stays there forever. All else is managed gradations of defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1106 "2025-08-18T02:12:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Both regions – known together as Donbas – are rich in minerals and industry. The industry is gone. At one time it was a major industrial sector, but one that was tightly entwined with the Russian industrial sector. Parts flowed back and forth across the border and a lot of the manufacturing trade (as opposed to stuff like steel) was internal to the old Soviet system, rather than exports to the West. A good deal of the shit they produced was indeed a little obsolete and shit by western standards. But a Ukrainian appliance was cheaper than an imported Bosch, so they sold in places like Belarus. A lot of that network was destroyed at the first outbreak of hostilities in 2014 and certainly little or nothing survives today. Rebuilding the Donbas today will be like rebuilding Germany after WW II. Doable, but only on a generational scale and with one hell of a Marshall Plan-like investment. Russia doesn’t have that kind of cash, so even if they won they’re taking possession of an economic basket case that’s going to negatively weigh down their already shuddering economy for decades. The mineral deposits aren’t really worth it. This is about prestige and geopolitics at this point, not money. Same goes for Ukraine of course, but at least they have a better chance of attracting speculative western investment. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1107 "2025-08-18T15:32:10Z")
Why is this tank flying both a Russian and American flag? [https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=russain+tank+with+american+flag](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=russain+tank+with+american+flag) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1108 "2025-08-18T15:50:39Z")
Propaganda, as the video originates from Russian media. What exactly they are trying to convey, and whether the message is intended primarily for domestic consumption or international I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1109 "2025-08-18T16:41:14Z")
This meeting really is extraordinarily. The European leaders have to change Trump’s position and make him think that eating his vegetables was his idea. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1110 "2025-08-18T16:45:29Z")
They also have to act like they are not utterly appalled at the way Trump has treated Putin with such bon ami and the statements Trump has been making. I’ve been saying all along that his threats against Russia are empty and are simply stringing out the Europeans. I don’t see Russia stopping the attacks on Ukraine’s cities so where are the tariffs Mr Trump? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1111 "2025-08-18T16:48:27Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > What exactly they are trying to convey, and whether the message is intended primarily for domestic consumption or international I don’t know. The other videos on that page are labelled to say the vehicle itself is a captured US vehicle, so the message seems fairly obviously one of defiance, though not, of course, as significant as the Russian PTB would like. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1112 "2025-08-18T18:53:13Z")
It’s amazing how possibly careless words after the Anchorage meeting shook up the European leaders. They saw this as a threat to Europe’s future security. I agree that this a historical moment in history. The future of possible Russian expansion and war may hinge on decisions made in 2025-26. Link [European leaders rush to US to help Ukraine avoid 'capitulation’](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9d0v8ljw3no) > [@](#): > > It takes a great deal for heads of government to upend their schedules at short notice – especially in August – when some are on holiday. > > The French leader was enjoying water sports on the Riviera. The Italian leader, Giorgia Meloni, had been in Greece. > > But such was the scale of President Trump’s change of strategy after meeting President Putin – and the consequent potential threat to Europe – that the European leaders changed their plans fast. > > Officials say Meloni was first to invite herself along, followed closely by Macron, after which it became inevitable others would have to go too. > > The leaders spent the weekend working the phones, holding no fewer than five separate group chats. > Their concern was [Trump’s decision to change the diplomatic goal posts](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvd2jpy1no) after meeting the Russian leader in Alaska. > > Some officials think the huge impact of these two decisions – which overturned months of western strategy – has been under-priced. Both moves shifted the US position more closely in Russia’s favour. > > “Things have moved very significantly and quite quickly to a timetable that no one was expecting,” one European official said. > > “The US sees this as a moment to strike while the iron is hot. Our question is what are we trying to achieve here?” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1113 "2025-08-18T23:10:51Z")
Could someone explain the phrase “land **swap** ” in this context? Are there really serious proposals that some territory could be transferred _from_ Russia _to_ Ukraine? If so, where? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1114 "2025-08-19T00:01:11Z")
The “swap” is trading land for peace. You know, like Czechoslovakia in 1938. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1115 "2025-08-19T00:02:54Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > You know, like Czechoslovakia in 1938. How’d that work out? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1116 "2025-08-19T00:19:27Z")
It bought peace in their time! Well, eventually. The details took seven years to work out. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1117 "2025-08-19T00:22:41Z")
It seems like Volodymyr Zelensky is getting closer to a meeting with Putin. I can’t imagine meeting the man that wants me and my family dead. Allegedly there have been [attempts on Volodymyr Zelensky’s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Volodymyr_Zelenskyy) life. Wasn’t he and other Ukrainian officials targeted the first night of the invasion? I’m not convinced a one on one meeting will be productive. It’s too personal for either man to think or react rationally. Negotiations are best left to a team of professionals that represent their governments. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1118 "2025-08-19T00:25:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It bought peace in their time! Well, eventually. The details took seven years to work out. 😂 See what happens when I try to be funny? I get out-funnied! > [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems like Volodymyr Zelensky is getting closer to a meeting with Putin. [I wonder if Zelensky knows the old ‘Luger up the sleeve trick’.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cZqRzHnI8s) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1119 "2025-08-19T00:32:34Z")
I wouldn’t drink or eat any refreshments from the table. 🤔 Link [Why does Russia keep poisoning people? The wild history of Moscow's chemical assassination plots - ABC News](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-16/russia-history-of-poisoning-its-enemies/100984912) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1120 "2025-08-19T07:15:23Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Could someone explain the phrase “land **swap** ” in this context? I have the impression that in Trump’s mind, it means swapping territory held on the battlefield, i.e., Russia gives back some land it has seized in return for other bits of Ukraine that it wants. Trump seems to think that this war is over some sort of no man’s land, with Ukraine’s and Russia’s claims to it of equal merit (and/or, bizarrely, that Ukraine started the fighting). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1121 "2025-08-19T07:49:39Z")
I see – thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=57)