# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1343 "2025-11-22T14:11:56Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, Trump could have last talked to someone who was pro-Ukraine. Something funky is going on there. Trump fawns over _anyone_ who comes to visit him at the White House, at least for the duration of the visit - one of the only times I can think of where this did _not_ happen was Zelensky’s visit. Trump’s handlers must know about Trump’s proclivity to take the side of whoever he talked to last and they must be more careful about letting him talk to someone pro-Ukranian than they are about anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1344 "2025-11-22T14:13:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You deploy British and French troops to the front. Get some skin in the game. Make it a standoff against 2 nuclear powers. If they cared enough about Ukraine to put that much on the line to defend Ukraine, we would never have gotten where we are now. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1345 "2025-11-22T15:35:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You turn the tide by calling the bluff. Every time Putin makes a nuclear threat, calmly laugh and say “grow up,” and remind him that the United States spends $60 billion each year just maintaining its nuclear arsenal and there is no way Russia, with its corruption and low funds, has done anywhere near that level of maintenance over the past few decades. You’d be correct, if Russia were threatening to nuke the U.S. But Putin isn’t threatening to nuke the U.S. - he’s threatening to nuke Ukraine. If the U.S. isn’t willing to use nukes in response, who cares how much more powerful its nuclear arsenal is? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1346 "2025-11-22T15:36:15Z")
I can think of another Western state with nukes that even has a lot of recent fighting experience that will not deploy troops to _that_ front. Strange **Alessan** did not suggest that. A standoff against **3** nuclear powers would be even more convincing. Empty talk, on the other hand, will not impress Mr. Putin. And no, I am not refering to the USA ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1347 "2025-11-22T15:37:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But Putin isn’t threatening to nuke the U.S. - he’s threatening to nuke Ukraine. He is threatening to nuke London, Paris and Berlin, and to cause an atomic tsunami in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1348 "2025-11-22T15:39:52Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I can think of another Western state with nukes that even has a lot of recent fighting experience that will not deploy troops to _that_ front. Strange **Alessan** did not suggest that. A standoff against **3** nuclear powers would be even more convincing. Empty talk, on the other hand, will not impress Mr. Putin. Not our circus, not our monkeys. You Europeans should be able to look after yourselves. After all, you used to do such a good job looking after the entire world. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1349 "2025-11-22T15:52:29Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I can think of another Western state with nukes that even has a lot of recent fighting experience that will not deploy troops to _that_ front Because Zelensky doesn’t get enough “Jewish Occupied Government” conspiracy nonsense peddled by Russian propaganda channels… Putin’s propagandists would be overjoyed. Anyways, there are different classes of “Nuclear Power”; Israel may meet the loosest definition, but are any Israeli delivery methods capable of reaching Russia? That’s not exactly who we are trying to deter. > [@Alessan](#): > > Not our circus, not our monkeys. To an extent, sure, but Russia is absolutely Israel’s enemy. Their main motivation is fucking with America, but they’re more than happy to fund and arm terrorists who attack Israel directly. And considering their poor performance in Ukraine this is probably out the window, but if things had gone more smoothly, they _do_ have more direct ambitions in the Middle East, and that would have spelled trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1350 "2025-11-22T16:07:03Z")
Israel already has helped Ukraine significantly, by bombing Iran. Iran isn’t a direct combatant in the Ukraine war, but they’re one of the few countries that was still supplying weapons to Russia, and that’s way down now. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1351 "2025-11-22T16:25:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Israel already has helped Ukraine significantly, by bombing Iran. Well, the US did that, too. Israel’s efforts were much more direct, of course, since they blew up missile stockpiles and factories making weapons that were actively being shipped to Russia, while the nuclear facilities the US struck are much less relevant to the Russian war effort. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1352 "2025-11-22T16:26:17Z")
The saving grace is that as lopsided as that “peace deal” offer was, Russia and Putin are so dumb that they still won’t take it. > **[Russia Rejects Trump’s Peace Plan, Says Only Full Military Victory Over...](https://united24media.com/latest-news/russia-rejects-trumps-peace-plan-says-only-full-military-victory-over-ukraine-is-acceptable-13688)** > > A senior Russian official has labeled the US peace proposal for Ukraine as a provocation, insisting only military victory will suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1353 "2025-11-22T17:34:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You Europeans should be able to look after yourselves. After all, you used to do such a good job looking after the entire world. The US has spent the last 60 years working to reduce European military power. Via NATO it has encouraged the European nations to reduce their militaries and focus on one or two specialisms to add to NATO’s overall strength. The US has in turn built up its military and used that power to effectively run NATO and distil global power and influence into Washington. This was deliberate. The European people have benefited from that as defence spending was reduced (and American tax payers have had to pick up the bill), but it has left the European nations vulnerable to US political upheaval and the threat of Russian aggression. This wasn’t forced upon Europe, the politicians who allowed this to happen are responsible. Still, the appetite for war was understandably low and money was reallocated to rebuilding cities. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1354 "2025-11-22T17:52:04Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > This wasn’t forced upon Europe It was forced upon West Germany, the USA (and France and the UK were happy about that, for understandable reasons) set strict limits to Germany’s military power. They would never be allowed aircraft carriers, for instance, never mind a nuke. They were allowed tanks, **[Lockheed F-104 Starfighters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104_Starfighter)**, aka “Witwenmacher” (widowmaker), and to be cannon fodder in case it was needed. Thankfully it was not needed. France and the UK were a different story. Still complex and not black and white. > [@Alessan](#): > > You Europeans should […] You are not claiming not to be European anymore, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1355 "2025-11-22T17:59:17Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > You are not claiming not to be European anymore, are you? We were never European. You made that perfectly clear to us. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1356 "2025-11-22T18:16:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The saving grace is that as lopsided as that “peace deal” offer was, Russia and Putin are so dumb that they still won’t take it. That is freaking hard to get my head around. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1357 "2025-11-23T00:09:53Z")
Oh, didn’t you know? It was never a peace plan. It was a “wish list”. > **[US senators say they spoke with Rubio about Trump’s Ukraine peace plan who...](https://kstp.com/ap-top-news/us-senators-say-they-spoke-with-rubio-about-trumps-ukraine-peace-plan-who-denied-it-is-a-us-plan/)** > > U.S. senators critical of President Donald Trump’s approach to ending the Russia-Ukraine war say they spoke with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio who told them that the peace plan Trump is pushing Kyiv to accept is a “wish list” of the Russians... ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1358 "2025-11-23T01:05:44Z")
I’m not buying this. There are some concessions that Russia had to make including giving up frozen assets. How would that be a Russian wishlist? Sounds to me like the White House are trying to walk this catastrophe back. Trump was never going to be able to sell the idea of stopping billions of dollars of military sales to European donors on behalf of Ukraine, which was the stick he was using to pressure Ukraine into signing up. It would be madness for the US to give up that money and all the leverage that goes with it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1359 "2025-11-23T02:10:23Z")
The sound of Trump backtracking is deafening. [Trump says US plan to end Ukraine war not 'final offer' for Kyiv](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clydg8w7kxvo) > [@](#): > > Saturday’s joint statement at the G20 summit in South Africa was signed by the leaders of Canada, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Spain, the UK, Germany and Norway. Two top EU officials were also among the signatories. > > The statement said: "We believe therefore that the draft is a basis which will require additional work. We are ready to engage in order to ensure that a future peace is sustainable. We are clear on the principle that borders must not be changed by force. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1360 "2025-11-23T16:17:12Z")
TACO, TACO MAN. Painfully obvious he never saw the ‘agreement’, read it, had it explained to him as if to a child, never participated in negotiations, had no clue beyond, ‘me want Peace Prize’. - Paul Blart, our president. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1361 "2025-11-23T16:19:10Z")
Well, the flip flopping is very bad for America’s reputation, but that’s so par for the course lately that it barely bears mentioning. Great news for Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1362 "2025-11-23T16:29:07Z")
Clowns behaving clownishly and amounting to nothing. Extremely predictable and pretty much the story of the last 9 months (as far as this war). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=69)