# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2025, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1443 "2025-12-12T09:40:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Don’t most countries already keep most of their gold reserves in New York? If you mean storage, no. My native Zimbabwe stores it in a vault in a bank in Harare, my adopted South Africa - one of the biggest sources of gold - have diverse storage, both internally and internationally. If you mean, something like stockmarket “gold futures” or similar speculation, then, also, no. And your own Fort Knox is in Kentucky, not New York. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2025, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1444 "2025-12-12T11:49:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If I’m Putin, why not just accept the peace deal to look good and curry favor with Trump, and then promptly keep attacking Ukraine again once Trump’s back is turned? There’s no reason not to do so. Which of course is why the latest tweak in the Trump administration’s proposals isn’t going down well (maybe it wasn’t meant to?) > **[US wants Ukraine to withdraw from Donbas and create ‘free economic zone’,...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/11/us-wants-ukraine-to-withdraw-from-donbas-and-create-free-economic-zone-says-zelenskyy)** > > Ukrainian president says plan would not be fair without guarantees that Russia would not simply take over zone (“Free zones” have been tried before - see Danzig) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2025, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1445 "2025-12-12T11:51:51Z")
I was referring to the [Federal Reserve Bank of New York](https://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/goldvault.html), which does physically house large amounts of Au, most of it owned by foreign governments. Where gold-based financial instruments are “stored” is mostly undefined, and even to the extent that it is defined, it’s mostly irrelevant. Then again, though, the physical gold itself is mostly irrelevant, too, since usually when nations buy and sell gold, the FRBNY doesn’t even bother to forklift it from one vault to another; they just change the labels on stacks of gold. But yes, if Russia is storing their own gold reserves physically in Russia, and this sale involves physical gold moving across the Russian border into other nations, then that’s relevant. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1446 "2025-12-12T14:20:45Z")
I’m not sure why Putin the master needs to curry favor with trump his bought and paid lackey. I see this as a fake one-way auction, where trump is privately ordered to propose something outrageously pro-Russian. Then once that proposal is public Putin sneers “not good enough”, and trump is ordered to make it more pro-Russian. Lather rinse repeat a few times while trump plays up his great skill as a negotiator / peacemaker. Then Putin finally says yes, trump declares “peace in our time” thanks to MEEEE, and as soon as the agreement is implemented and facts on the ground are no longer actively shifting towards Russia’s (Putin’s) benefit, Putin will first start whining, then start chiseling, then finally grossly abrogate the agreement while the USA sits idly by or, if trump’s still around, loudly decrying Ukrainian perfidy. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2025, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1447 "2025-12-12T18:32:27Z")
Quite. An old KGB hand like Putin knows all about salami tactics > **[Salami slicing tactics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics)** > > Salami slicing tactics, also known as salami slicing, salami tactics, the salami-slice strategy, or salami attacks, is the practice of using a series of many small actions to produce a much larger action or result that would be difficult or unlawful to perform all at once. > Salami tactics are a generally subversive strategy used extensively in geopolitics, such as countries attempting to expand their borders, and war games as a method of achieving goals gradually without provoking significant esc... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1448 "2025-12-14T15:21:16Z")
Couldn’t the older processors easily work in missiles? Old Pentium processors from recycled Win 7 pc’s should have enough speed to guide a missile. I recall hearing cars and many smart appliances use chip technology from the 1990’s. They’re cheap components. Ukraine can just as easily buy a cargo container of junk PC’s. There’s a 3rd world industry in recovering precious metals from phones and pc’s. The processor is socket mounted and can be recycled. > **[AMD, Intel, and TI are ‘merchants of death’ says lawyer representing...](https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/amd-intel-and-ti-are-merchants-of-death-says-lawyer-representing-ukrainian-civilians-five-new-suits-complain-that-russian-drones-and-missiles-continue-to-use-high-tech-components-from-these-brands)** > > Drones, plus cruise and ballistic missiles, are still being found with AMD and Intel parts inside. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1449 "2025-12-14T17:26:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Couldn’t the older processors easily work in missiles? It doesn’t matter if there are alternatives. Companies need to comply with export control. (Obviously I have no idea if they are here or not.) > [@aceplace57](#): > > I recall hearing cars and many smart appliances use chip technology from the 1990’s. IME older IC designs trickle down to lower-end devices, but often with a refresh in packaging, clock rates, and power inputs. You can retrofit your design to use recovered components, but it wouldn’t be a drop in replacement. It’s a big space though and my experience may not be universally true; especially internationally. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2025, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1450 "2025-12-14T23:47:01Z")
The tech companies need to do everything possible to obey the Russian sanctions. Unfortunately countries like China can buy whatever Russia needs. Ironic the journalist used passive voice in the header. > **[Ukraine willing to drop ambitions to join Nato, Zelenskyy says](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/14/ukraine-willing-to-drop-ambitions-to-join-nato-zelenskyy-says)** > > Move marks big shift for Ukraine, which has fought to join Nato as safeguard against Russian attacks > [@](#): > > The move marks a big shift for Ukraine, which has fought to join Nato as a safeguard against Russian attacks and has such an aspiration included in its constitution. It also meets one of Russia’s war aims, although Kyiv has so far held firm against ceding territory to Moscow. > > “Representatives held in-depth discussions regarding the 20-point plan for peace, economic agendas, and more. A lot of progress was made,” Witkoff wrote in a post on X. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1451 "2025-12-15T20:18:47Z")
Can’t help but wonder who supplied the targeting gps. Targeting an entire country’s medicine is another new low for Russia. First you get people sick in unheated homes. Then finish them by cutting off supplies for pharmacies. > **[Ukraine's health supplies hit in series of Russian strikes on medical warehouses](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqlkk9qk7vyo)** > > Warehouses supplying the vast majority of Ukraine's pharmacies have been destroyed over recent months. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1452 "2025-12-16T01:41:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Can’t help but wonder who supplied the targeting gps. Possibly just spies. It’s not like non-military warehouses are all that secure and I expect there’s lots of Russian spies in Ukraine. And vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1453 "2025-12-16T02:23:19Z")
Any reasonably good effort google searching the supply chains of pharmacies will find the warehouses. This isn’t the work of traitors. It’s the work of anyone with a browser. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1454 "2025-12-16T05:43:38Z")
Ukraine is saying it’s hit a Russian Kilo-class SSK submarine with underwater drones. > **[СБ України (@ServiceSsu)](https://xcancel.com/ServiceSsu/status/2000582600658694487)** > > СБУ вразила підводний човен рф у Новоросійську > > Деталі за посиланням ➡️ http://ssu.gov.ua/novyny/sbu-vrazyla-pidvodnyi-choven-rf-u-novorosiisku-video ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1455 "2025-12-16T12:35:57Z")
English language source with a pic: **[Ukraine says underwater drones hit submarine, but Moscow denies damage | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-hits-russian-submarine-first-underwater-drone-attack-2025-12-15/)**. If indeed there was a sub where that explosion was, I doubt that damage will buff out. That seems to be a nice assortment of ships there. Perhaps a swarm of drones can take most of them next time. They could call it a “Fleet-shattering Kablooey”. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1456 "2025-12-16T12:50:15Z")
Wonder how Ukraine got footage from what appears to be a camera that was obviously inside the Russian naval base? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1457 "2025-12-16T12:51:04Z")
They could call it порт жемчужин in Russian, or the port of pearls. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1458 "2025-12-16T12:57:09Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Wonder how Ukraine got footage from what appears to be a camera that was obviously inside the Russian naval base? Hacked security camera, probably. I posted a link to video in the other Ukraine war thread. The link above that @Velocity posted has been taken down. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1459 "2025-12-16T15:53:14Z")
Zelenskyy has skillfully shown an openness to negotiate and make significant concessions for peace. Russia will probably reject weeks of work by the _US and Ukrainian representatives_. That should direct Trump’s frustration towards Putin. It’s important because Ukraine depends on US Aid. Ukraine still has supporters in Congress. The Republicans may push back if Trump tries to completely cut off Ukraine’s supplies. I appreciate that this security plan requires a vote by Congress. It makes it more binding and enforceable. Trump can’t shrug and say “They misunderstood my intentions.”, two years from now. Yes, I know, Trump is unpredictable and volatile. Unfortunately he still has three more years in office. Ukraine has to work with him and keep US support. > **[Peace plans ready to be presented to Russia in days, says Zelenskyy](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/16/ukraine-russia-peace-plans-zelenskyy-berlin-talks-putin)** > > US says talks with Ukraine in Berlin have resolved 90% of difficult issues – but no sign Putin willing to compromise > [@](#): > > “We are counting on five documents. Some of them concern security guarantees: legally binding, that is, voted on and approved by the US Congress,” he said in comments to journalists via WhatsApp. He said the guarantees would “mirror article 5” of Nato. > > On Monday, US officials declined to give specific details of what the security package was likely to include, and what would happen if Russia attempted to seize more land after a peace deal was reached. They did, however, confirm that the US did not plan to put boots on the ground in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1460 "2025-12-16T19:05:54Z")
You do you. But any discussion about what trump should do is nuts. He’s not trying to be the US president. Nothing he ever does is about what is good for the world or good for the USA, or our allies such as Ukraine. Nothing. It’s all about stealing for himself and destroying the USA for his boss Putin. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1461 "2025-12-16T19:08:06Z")
Here’s a cite from another thread about the Ukrainian sea drone attack on the sub. In which they claim a sinking. Now a sinking next to a dock is far more salveagable than is a sinking at sea. So that sub may someday serve Russia again. But assuming the Ukrainians aren’t grossly exaggerating the effectiveness of their attack, that service won’t be any time soon. > **[Russia Loses Submarine to Ukrainian Underwater Drone in Unprecedented Attack](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/66281)** > > The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) said it used a new underwater drone to strike Russia’s Novorossiysk naval base, sinking a Russian submarine in the process. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1462 "2025-12-16T19:20:39Z")
I agree this will probably end badly for Ukraine. Trump will turn his back on the war and cut off all support. Europe will talk big and do nothing substantial. It won’t talk long to deplete Ukraine’s artillery shells and missiles. The drones aren’t effective without satellite intelligence. Maybe Zelenskyy can escape before he’s captured and executed. That’s the worse case scenario. I hope there are some territory concessions in the peace plan. Throw Putin a bone and hope he ends the war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=74)