# Russia invades Ukraine -- The regional situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349 "2023-12-30T18:43:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1483 "2025-12-17T20:45:11Z")
I don’t think Russia is really as upset about having NATO on their borders as they claim. They’ve already had Estonia, a NATO nation, on their border for decades. Kaliningrad is entirely encircled by NATO territory. And when Finland joined and added a far longer NATO border that directly touches Russia, the Russians whined again at first but then made little to no fuss afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2025, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1484 "2025-12-17T21:29:49Z")
Interesting analysis of a very complex problem. There’s no one solution. Finding any countries willing to supply peace keeping troops is very unlikely. > **[What it would really take to stop Putin fighting in Ukraine](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyzzxggl7go)** > > As peace talks continue in Berlin, what - if anything - could potentially change Putin's mind? And could Europe do anything differently? > [@](#): > > Mr Giles said: “The only thing that will unarguably, undeniably stop Russian aggression is the presence of sufficiently strong western forces where Russia wants to attack, and the demonstrated will and resolve that they will be used to defend.” > > This strategy would of course come with huge political difficulty - with some voters in western Europe unwilling to risk a confrontation with Russia. > > Few analysts expect Ukraine to reverse the tide and make actual territorial gains of its own. > > Having spent several weeks in Ukraine recently, I heard no mention of any Spring offensive, only the need to slow Russia’s advance and increase the price it pays in blood and treasure. . . . > [@](#): > > For now though, Putin believes he is sitting pretty, with time on his side. The longer this conflict goes on, analysts say, the more Ukrainian morale will fall, the more divided its allies will become, and the more territory Russia will gain in Donetsk. > > “Either we liberate these territories by force of arms or Ukrainian troops leave these territories,” Putin said last week. > > “Nothing will change his position,” Fiona Hill told me. “Unless he exits stage left. Putin is betting right now that he can keep this going for long enough that circumstances play out to his advantage.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2025, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1485 "2025-12-17T21:53:17Z")
'Zactly. As I’ve been saying from nearly the gitgo. His plan, after the initial _blitzkrieg_ didn’t work, is simply to outwait the West who’ll lose interest eventually. He needs to keep the mess just bloody enough to cow the West while not bleeding his own country too hard. Which also suggests the obvious Western response leading to Western success. Ensure the Russians are bleeding more than they can sustain. Every day. Which is a tall order for countries who really don’t want to be in any wars anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1486 "2025-12-19T16:38:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Putin will not be happy until he controls the borders of the old Russian empire. Which, includes Alaska- altho of course he never mentions that. > > He wans ukraine, most of Poland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. plus a lot of ‘stan notions, altho those can remain as puppet states. This is what people need to understand. Every single war Putin has fought has been about this, securing the old borders so they are not so vulnerable to ground invasion. The old soviet borders had defensible gaps, the current Russia is open plain. Ukraine was never the goal, which is why giving him part of Ukraine is never going to lead to peace. The gaps are PAST Ukraine in NATO territory, that is the goal. There isn’t going to be any peace that is not the result of Russian collapse, any peace deal is simply helping Putin. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1487 "2025-12-19T19:08:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > This is what people need to understand. Every single war Putin has fought has been about this, securing the old borders so they are not so vulnerable to ground invasion. Well, except Russia isnt really worried about “ground invasion” again. But correct. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1488 "2025-12-19T20:26:34Z")
I would be worried if I was them and if I was only half as paranoid as their leadership is. China could enter from the South and take everything they want from Irkustk to Vladivostok. Would serve them right, if you ask me. What goes around comes around. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1489 "2025-12-20T20:18:19Z")
It’s difficult to read that the Abrams is now vulnerable on todays drone battlefield. Thank goodness the US tank crews didn’t learn this lesson the hard way. The armor school at Fort Benning must be working hard to adjust tactics and strengthen the top plating. [https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/12/19/australia-completes-delivery-of-49-abrams-tanks-now-they-must-survive-the-drones/](https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/12/19/australia-completes-delivery-of-49-abrams-tanks-now-they-must-survive-the-drones/) > [@](#): > > Australia on 19 December [delivered](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-19/inside-classified-mission-to-deliver-australian-tanks-to-ukraine/106122650)the last of 49 promised Abrams main battle tanks to Ukraine. The tanks may [join](https://www.twz.com/land/m1-abrams-tanks-now-being-operated-by-a-second-unit-in-ukraine)the 425th Skala Regiment defending Pokrovsk—and arrive as Ukraine faces a sobering reality: 27 of the original 31 American-supplied Abrams are already gone. > > “Australia’s freshly completed delivery of 49 modified M1A1s on 19 December… arrives as a potential lifeline, enough for one full battalion plus replacements,” said Viktor Kevliuk, a Ukrainian retired military officer and analyst with the Center for Defense Strategies. The 425th is the second Ukrainian unit after the 47th Mechanized Brigade to operate the Abrams. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1490 "2025-12-20T20:26:02Z")
Tanks, in general, have been obsolete for a long time. There’s no opposing target that their guns are the right weapon against, and there’s no opposing weapon other than other tanks that their armor is the right defense against. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1491 "2025-12-20T20:28:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Tanks, in general, have been obsolete for a long time. There’s no opposing target that their guns are the right weapon against, and there’s no opposing weapon other than other tanks that their armor is the right defense against Maybe in the context of a massed tank assault like in WWII, but tanks are still enormously useful in combined arms warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1492 "2025-12-20T20:48:38Z")
On a lighter note: Russian prosecutors are moving to trying one Jacques Tilly, one of the designers of the carnival floats on the Rose Monday (Carnival Monday) parade in Düsseldorf, in absentia for “defamation of the Russian armed forces”. That will probably mean that German carnival parades will address still more loving attention to Putin in 2026. Most of the floats usually roast German institutions and politicians, but Putin is asking for it. One sample from the 2023 Düsseldorf parade: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/eDtZPzC.png?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/g10j5Tn) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1493 "2025-12-20T21:57:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Tanks, in general, have been obsolete for a long time. T Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1494 "2025-12-21T04:55:19Z")
Like all aspects of war, the role of tanks is changing. Next gen tanks under development right now are capable of deploying and controlling a host of drones and loitering munitions, acting as a well armored mothership and command center. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1495 "2025-12-22T09:16:59Z")
**[Lt Gen Fanil Sarvarov](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/22/russian-general-fanil-sarvarov-killed-car-bomb-moscow-investigators-say)**, the head of the operational training directorate of the Russian armed forces’ general staff, has been promoted to Russian heaven in an **[Admiral-General Luis Carrero Blanco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Carrero_Blanco)** memorial flight. Fifty-two years and two days after the **[original flight](https://youtu.be/I4x6wu8u2OY?t=17)**, two days too late to make it a round number. I am not complaining. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1496 "2025-12-22T13:38:30Z")
The text and picture don’t seem to agree real well. The text says he was driving down the road when the car blew up. The picture seems to show a wrecked car in a parking lot. I’m not suggesting skullduggery, just news reporting confusion. The punchline is the guy is dead. Good. Before reading the article I wondered whether he was killed by the Ukrainians for being good at his job, or killed by the Russians for being bad at it. But this doesn’t have the earmarks of a Russian op. Although I bet a bunch of him did go out the car windows in classic Russian defenestration style. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1497 "2025-12-22T13:54:53Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Before reading the article I wondered whether he was killed by the Ukrainians for being good at his job, or killed by the Russians for being bad at it. Or killed by the Russians for being good at his job. One of the (many) difficulties plaguing the Russian command structure is that any leader who’s too successful is a potential rival to Putin, and must therefore be eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1498 "2025-12-22T13:59:42Z")
That’s true in all totalitarian structures. Which is good for the rest of us who don’t (didn’t used to?) live in totalitarian countries. There’s a distinction between being good at your job, and building up a power base of your own from among your underlings and perhaps peers. Those things can be correlated, but they are also different. The latter is quickly fatal; the former not as much, or at least not as quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1499 "2025-12-22T14:14:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The text says he was driving down the road when the car blew up. The picture seems to show a wrecked car in a parking lot. I’m not suggesting skullduggery, just news reporting confusion. Carbomb underneath the car blew off the front bumper. Car was probably pulled off the road for investigation to clear traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1500 "2025-12-22T15:23:05Z")
Better images and more details **[here (gift link NYT)](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/22/world/europe/russia-moscow-general-killed.html?unlocked_article_code=1.-k8.bpny.lNwGr0CJCkrg&smid=url-share)**. He was leaving a parking area. He did not make it far. Not on the horizontal coordinates, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1501 "2025-12-22T15:37:01Z")
And not in average position of his center of mass. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349/1502 "2025-12-22T16:44:32Z")
But he was, briefly, doing some 1000ft/sec. In every direction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-the-regional-situation/995349.md?page=76)