# Russia: Land of the Tsars-who else is excited? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295 "2003-05-24T21:56:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/21 "2003-05-26T00:14:36Z")
As I recall, the English translation to the rulers of Russia’s title was along the lines of “Autocrat of all the Russias”. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/22 "2003-05-26T01:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **No, it’s Tsar. There is no Cz in the Russian alphabet! I HATE “Czar”.** Well, then it’s too bad the Rooskies decided to name their Big Wumpus after a Roman guy, whose name plainly starts with a “C” in the Latin alphabet. So clearly they’re the ones in the wrong here. Maybe they don’t have a “Cz,” but I’m sure they could have cobbled together something with a “K,” which they seem to have a lot of, and one of those other chicken scratches. Hell, I’ll _mail_ them a box of “Cz’s,” if they’re that hard up for consonants. Or Poland could sponsor a relief mission using their “Cz” surplus. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/23 "2003-05-26T01:21:37Z")
It’s pronounced ts. C is the S character in cyrillic. Russians don’t use the Latin alphabet. I’m sure you’re joking, but perhaps you could learn a little bit about the language you’re joking about, hmmm? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/24 "2003-05-26T02:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*It’s pronounced ts. C is the S character in cyrillic. Russians don’t use the Latin alphabet. I’m sure you’re joking, but perhaps you could learn a little bit about the language you’re joking about, hmmm? > :rolleyes: \*\* Íî ýòî íå áûëî áû òàê ìíîãî çàáàâû! ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/25 "2003-05-26T02:05:35Z")
Or, not. Ah well, never tried that before. You learn something new ever’ day, I reckon. Preview! KHAAAAAAN!!! ---
**Author:** ![SUPERKARLENE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@SUPERKARLENE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SUPERKARLENE)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/26 "2003-05-26T05:33:21Z")
I have to back **Guinastasia** on this one, **Terrifel**. “Cz” is a horribly inaccurate rendering of the Cyrillic letter. And yes, it IS a version of caesar, but that doesn’t really make the use of “cz” any more correct. “Cz”, as far as I know, is a remnant of the Latin alphabet transliterations from the nineteenth century. Unfortunately, it still persists now, though most linguists now think that “ts” is far more accurate. And **Captain Amazing** , the Russians DID use “imperator” - to mean “emperor”, but it was fairly coexistent with “tsar”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/27 "2003-05-26T13:32:29Z")
Sorry, it’s just a pet peeve of mine-Cz instead of Ts. Kind of like people who say _s_eltic instead of _k_eltic. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/28 "2003-05-26T13:46:03Z")
The _Times_ gave it a mixed review; apparently they _will_ be interviewing actual historians (watch it, **GMRyujin**!). On the downside, they also say it’s “a pop-up textbook of grisly moments brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored reenactments.” So I will probably make it to the first commercial break before turning off the set in disgust. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/29 "2003-05-26T16:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*The _Times_ gave it a mixed review; apparently they _will_ be interviewing actual historians (watch it, **GMRyujin**!). On the downside, they also say it’s “a pop-up textbook of grisly moments brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored reenactments.” \*\* Woohoo! The more lurid the better! Bring on the overheated dialogue, summer stock actors in fancy uniforms, and soap opera story lines! ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/30 "2003-05-26T17:01:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SUPERKARLENE \* > \*\*I have to back **Guinastasia** on this one, **Terrifel**. “Cz” is a horribly inaccurate rendering of the Cyrillic letter. And yes, it IS a version of caesar, but that doesn’t really make the use of “cz” any more correct. > > “Cz”, as far as I know, is a remnant of the Latin alphabet transliterations from the nineteenth century. Unfortunately, it still persists now, though most linguists now think that “ts” is far more accurate. > > And **Captain Amazing** , the Russians DID use “imperator” - to mean “emperor”, but it was fairly coexistent with “tsar”. \*\* Well, if the Reds are so all-fired keen on using “Ts” these days, I guess it’s really no skin off my nose. I just hope they realise how odd it makes their history look at a glance. “Born on 30 May 1622, **Peter the Great** would become Russia’s greatest Teaser.” “Nikolai, hurry! Potemkin has ordered that we paint the village before the Teaserina arrives!” Oh, but I suppose the Russians want to spell them “Feater the Great” and “Foatemkin” now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/31 "2003-05-26T17:16:02Z")
Dude, TS is pronounced the same way as the C in CAESAR. But why don’t you rant about _Kaiser_ for a while? 😉 Or from koenig to king? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/32 "2003-05-26T17:36:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **Dude, TS is pronounced the same way as the C in CAESAR.** _waving arms like Kermit the Frog_ THEN WHY NOT JUST USE A FRICKIN’ “C”?! IT’S THE LATIN ALPHABET!!! \*\* > [@](#): > > But why don’t you rant about _Kaiser_ for a while? > > 😉 Or from koenig to king? \*\* Oh, don’t even get me started. I should point out, however, that at least the Germans had the decency to use a “K,” which is at least in the same general ballpark as “C.” Lord knows, the Germans have their own transliteration problems without dragging a whole other alphabet into it. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/33 "2003-05-26T17:44:48Z")
How is this going to be any different than any of the one hour specials about Rasputin, Catherine, Nikolas, et al? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/34 "2003-05-26T17:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terrifel \* > **"Born on 30 May 1622, Peter the Great would become Russia’s greatest Teaser."** He’s a great teaser./ He took me halfaway there./ He’s a great teaser./ He took me halfaway there, now./ And by there I mean the West. I think I’ll be slinking off now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/35 "2003-05-26T17:54:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*It’s pronounced ts. C is the S character in cyrillic. Russians don’t use the Latin alphabet. \*\* But we do. Technically, “Czar” is just as good a spelling as “Tsar.” Given the pronounciation of the word, it makes just as much sense to spell it that way in the Latin alphabet. How it’s spelled in Cyrillic is a different matter. As with the arguments over how to spell “Ghadafy/Quaddafi/whatever,” taking a word from another language with a completely different script pretty much involves coming up with a Latin way of spelling it and arriving at a consensus. There’s nothing “correct” about “Tsar” that isn’t correct about “Czar,” because in both cases all you’re doing is coming up with a Latin approximation of the SOUND of the word. Since both “Czar” and “Tsar” are recognized in most every dictionary, they are both by any objective standard a correct spelling of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Splanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@Splanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splanky)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/36 "2003-05-26T17:55:43Z")
There’s no “P” in the Chinese alphabet but we still spell it “Peking”. I don’t use the Cyrillic alphabet, so I don’t see anything wrong with Latin-izing it. “Czar” and “Tsar” are pronounced the same so I don’t get what the big deal is. It is _not_ the same as Keltic and Seltic at all. ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/37 "2003-05-26T18:08:39Z")
I wasn’t curious till now, but do sports announcers say Boston “Seltics” or Boston “Keltics”? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/38 "2003-05-26T18:43:58Z")
The Boston team is the “Seltics”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/39 "2003-05-26T19:22:49Z")
“Caeasar”, in the time of Caesar, was pronounced, approximately, “kye-sar”. (As far as we can tell, there being a dearth of sound recording equipment in ancient Rome). The single Cyrillic letter which begins the title “Tsar” is pronounced “ts”. So, although “Tsar” and “Czar” are both acceptable variant spellings in English, “Tsar” is the one that will give an English speaker the more accurate impression of how the Russian word is pronounced. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295/40 "2003-05-26T19:24:10Z")
It was also “Caesar” and not “Caeasar”. That’ll teach me not to try and be pedantic. Oh, hang on, no, it won’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-land-of-the-tsars-who-else-is-excited/177295.md?page=3)