# Russia may be about to invade Ukraine. {Russia has invaded as of Feb 24-2022} **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699 "2021-04-09T20:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/641 "2022-02-19T18:46:21Z")
Which is exactly why a macho thug like Putin won’t back down. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/642 "2022-02-19T19:16:57Z")
If Putin is set on perusing USSR irredentism, won’t he be in the same dilemma as Brezhnev? Maintenance costs of a nuclear arsenal, mobile missile launchers, subs, tank park, etc. A population starved of consumer goods, housing and healthcare. (Granted, in the old days that was bottlenecked by Gosplan. That’s now gone from Russia, and never was in the West… where we’re starved of affordable housing and healthcare). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/643 "2022-02-19T20:45:42Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Things are heated on tv too. > > [https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1494818330326224897](https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1494818330326224897) > > [https://twitter.com/gkates/status/1494789108874551299](https://twitter.com/gkates/status/1494789108874551299) …and the sign language interpreter keeps on keepin’ on… The tension just keeps mounting. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/644 "2022-02-19T21:05:07Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > A population starved of consumer goods, housing and healthcare. (Granted, in the old days that was bottlenecked by Gosplan. That’s now gone from Russia, and never was in the West… where we’re starved of affordable housing and healthcare). We’re also being starved of consumer goods by supply chain woes. We’re not quite at breadlines, but wait times for products are longer and whole sections of stock are often out. Not for the same reasons as Soviet supply issues, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/645 "2022-02-19T21:40:00Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > We’re also being starved of consumer goods by supply chain woes. I predict we crumble two weeks after the avocados run out. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/646 "2022-02-19T22:01:43Z")
We may not be able to get certain goods - but at least we don’t have to stand in endless lines to not get them. (Unless it is Black Friday, or tickets to some concert…) Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/647 "2022-02-19T23:15:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > We add the definite article when a country’s name represents a collective, as in “the United Kingdom” or “the United States”. Ukraine is not such an entity. I rather suspect that the initial “Uk” letters of the name may have led to a conflation with “the UK”. That’s not where it comes from. It started picking up the definite article in English when it wasn’t a nation-state, and Ukraine was usually referred to as a region, the way you say “the Maritimes.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/648 "2022-02-20T01:02:26Z")
“The Maritimes” is a collective noun. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/649 "2022-02-20T01:11:17Z")
I’m wondering how Putin would feel if the Ukraine decided to treat him like he does his political enemies. Maybe come down with a case of radioactive food poisoning. The world should treat him like a war criminal and be done with it. Ban his travel to European cities, impound his wealth etc… ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/650 "2022-02-20T01:27:44Z")
So is the origin or Ukraine > **[Why Did "The Ukraine" Become Just "Ukraine"?](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/32098/why-did-ukraine-become-just-ukraine)** > > Until a few decades ago, Ukraine was almost always referred to as the Ukraine. Then people started dropping the definite article, and now you almost never see it. What gives? > Most historians and linguists agree that the name _Ukraine_ comes from the Slavic _ukraina_ , meaning “borderlands.” Since many countries whose names derive from a geographical feature or factor have a definite article—“the Philippines” referring to the Philippine islands, “the Netherlands” meaning “the lowlands”— _the_ Ukraine makes sense in terms of “ _the_ borderlands.” ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/651 "2022-02-20T01:46:03Z")
[Putin could attack Ukraine on Feb. 16, Biden told allies](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2022/02/11/putin-could-attack-ukraine-on-feb-16-biden-told-allies-00008344) Fortunately, that was wrong. So either U.S. intelligence lied to hide how much it knows, or, more likley, they don’t really know Russia’s plan. The CIA, which I presume is the source of Biden’s information, does not have an outstanding track record in solving the [riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/world/europe/01iht-letter.1.14939466.html#:~:text=Famously%2C%20Winston%20Churchill%20defined%20Russia,who%20choose%20more%20open%20regulations.) of Russian government intentions. And predicting any major invasion is extremely difficult because it is going to be a closely held secret. So there still is reason to hope that no major Russian invasion is at hand (although a smaller conflict is still tragic). I suspect Putin is trying to convince the west that a large-scale invasion is coming so that something smaller will be treated as close to acceptable. Tomorrow, maybe I will be proven wrong. Obviously, I hope not. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/652 "2022-02-20T02:19:50Z")
Do you understand what “could” means? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/653 "2022-02-20T03:25:05Z")
Putin could attack Ukraine on almost any day, except maybe when Russia is having some large-scale maneuvers far away. I hypothesize that my quote unquote intelligence community, at great taxpayer expense, gave Biden a most likely major attack date of February 16. Biden passed that on to the world, including Amercan taxpayers like myself, for which I thank him. He’d be a fool to not take whatever prediction he was given and make it sound less certain. So, yes, I think I understand the word could. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/654 "2022-02-20T04:22:07Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > So, yes, I think I understand the word could. Apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/655 "2022-02-20T09:18:59Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > [Putin could attack Ukraine on Feb. 16, Biden told allies](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2022/02/11/putin-could-attack-ukraine-on-feb-16-biden-told-allies-00008344) > > Fortunately, that was wrong. So either U.S. intelligence lied to hide how much it knows, or, more likley, they don’t really know Russia’s plan. Or, if the intelligence was accurate, as soon at the planned date was announced Putin changed his plans. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/656 "2022-02-20T09:39:39Z")
A story that deserves far more attention than it’s gotten: The Russian-backed separatist leaders of Donetsk and Luhansk provinces in Ukraine have ordered a [civilian evacuation](https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-rebels-mobilisation/separatist-leaders-in-eastern-ukraine-declare-full-military-mobilisation-idUKKBN2KO06O?edition-redirect=uk). They ordered 700,000 women and children to leave their homes and be bused to Russia, where camps have been set up. This is all being done based on false Russian claims that the Ukrainians plan an offensive there. Presumably, it’s the setup for a false-flag attack, which will be the pretext for the coming invasion. Think for a moment what it means to try to force **700,000** people out of their settled lives and make them refugees. Think of the elderly with their infirmities. Doctors and others with vital jobs. Those with pets. A [photo in the New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/19/world/europe/ukraine-russia-missiles-putin.html) shows some of these refugees now in Russia, living on crammed-together army bunk beds in Quonset huts. This is how Russian-backed separatist leaders – in coordination with the Kremlin – are treating **Russian-speaking** civilians in Ukraine. This is how far they’re willing to go. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/657 "2022-02-20T11:07:49Z")
My best guess is that Putin is planning for a limited attack on Eastern Ukraine and using the possibility of a larger invasion as way to pressure Ukraine and limit their defensive options. I am skeptical that a full invasion is imminent because a)It’s a bad idea from Russia’s long-term perspective and possibly Putin’s as well and I think Putin is still mostly a rational figure b)They don’t seem to have enough troops ready for a full invasion given Ukraine’s military strength c)As discussed above, the spring thaw will make a full invasion really difficult; if that was the plan it would have been carried out 1-2 months earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/658 "2022-02-20T13:42:52Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Grammatical games (which you can play in Slavic as well) notwithstanding, [in my head at least] I always want to call it “Ukraina”. Are English speakers really not expected to be able to pronounce that? That’s not its name in English. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/659 "2022-02-20T14:44:17Z")
This news report has a map showing all of the locations where Russian troops are positioned. I feel so awful for the people of Ukraine. I’d be terrified. > **[Ukraine: Russia plans biggest war in Europe since 1945 - Boris Johnson](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-60448162)** > > Boris Johnson tells BBC that intelligence suggests Russia intends to launch an invasion encircling Kyiv. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/660 "2022-02-20T14:48:58Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Think for a moment what it means to try to force **700,000** people out of their settled lives and make them refugees. Think of the elderly with their infirmities. Doctors and others with vital jobs. Those with pets. 700,000 new tax payers, some of them doctors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699.md?page=34)