# Russia plunders Ukrainian military equipment: Is there a legal basis? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294 "2014-03-22T16:27:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/41 "2014-03-25T08:48:14Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > …except that Putin himself explicitly drew a comparison between Kosovo and Crimea, and claimed the circumstances of the annexation are identical. It doesn’t matter whether the comparison is objectively valid, only that Putin claims it is and is therefore a hypocrite. Now that’s interesting. Could you provide a citation to exactly what he said? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/42 "2014-03-25T09:10:57Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It seems objectively worth it to me. Crimea is an extremely valuable asset. And it’s not like there was much good will to squander to begin with. It’s a valuable military asset, maybe, but military assets are only valuable if you intend to fight a war. How is Crimea an _economically_ valuable asset? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/43 "2014-03-25T11:53:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s a valuable military asset, maybe, but military assets are only valuable if you intend to fight a war. How is Crimea an _economically_ valuable asset? The best non Turkish ports on the Black Sea? Russia’s only direct warm port? Plus unlike the Cold War, the Far East is booming and this could provide an excellent way for goods from the Far East to reach Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/44 "2014-03-25T12:42:39Z")
Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/45 "2014-03-25T15:02:56Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It seems objectively worth it to me. Crimea is an extremely valuable asset. And it’s not like there was much good will to squander to begin with. Makes you wonder if this all would have happened if the Olympics were well-organized and massively successful instead of a disorganized mess they turned out to be. Maybe the goodwill needed to go the other way. Putin says, “well, those Olympics were pathetic, might as well go ahead and grab Crimea now.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/46 "2014-03-25T17:18:50Z")
I suppose if Yanukovich had been able to keep things squared away the statu quo ante would have remained in place, as long as a compliant goverment sat in Kiev. But one can imagine there probably always were several “Retain Crimea Ops Plan 1”, “…2”, “…3” etc. already drafted and practiced sitting on the shelf. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/47 "2014-03-26T00:50:45Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > Makes you wonder if this all would have happened if the Olympics were well-organized and massively successful instead of a disorganized mess they turned out to be." Pretty much all Olympics in recent years have been disorganized messes to some degree. It doesn’t really matter, since all most of the world sees are the images on television. The fact that the olympics were pulled off at all without any major incidents (terrorist attacks, etc.) make them a “success.” The fact that Russia was hosting the olympics did probably tie Putin’s hands for the duration. Otherwise, he probably would have felt less constrained, and would have made his move sooner. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/48 "2014-03-26T00:57:37Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > If Kosovo is the one setting the beat, then you might as well accuse the majority of world leaders of changing the tune when it benefits them. Every state which has recognized Kosovo’s self-determination has refused to recognize Crimea’s self-determination. Of course, the reality is that the no two separatist movements have identical circumstances, and so supporting one but not another is not necessarily hypocritical. For one thing, Kosovo waited for about 9 years after the end of the Kosovo War, and 18 years after its founding, before declaring independece. So there has been more time for Kosovo’s independence to become a fait accompli. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/49 "2014-03-26T05:18:10Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > If Kosovo is the one setting the beat, then you might as well accuse the majority of world leaders of changing the tune when it benefits them. Every state which has recognized Kosovo’s self-determination has refused to recognize Crimea’s self-determination. Of course, the reality is that the no two separatist movements have identical circumstances, and so supporting one but not another is not necessarily hypocritical. There’s a big difference between annexation through the pretence of an independence movement, stage directed by Russia; versus Kosovo, where an already proven murderous, genocidal regime in Serbia (Srebrenica anyone?) was threating, or rather carrying through with, round 2 in Kosovo. It seems so far the guiding principle is that homicidal ethnic cleansing is a guaranteed way to get the rest of the world to take the oppressed side’s independence claim seriously. (Darfur, Kosovo, East Timor…) But… only after protracted diplomatic effort fails to iron out a compromise. One bully taking a piece of a country rarely gets that recognition and only causes ongoing problems - Alsace-Lorraine, Sudetenland, Turkish Cyprus (debatable), occupied Palestine… ---
**Author:** ![oogabooga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c68b51/32.png) [@oogabooga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oogabooga)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/50 "2014-03-28T09:08:52Z")
So no one (americans) realise that Russia pretty much gave that hardware to them in the 1st place. And by gave, i mean they made a few land claims for military bases (just like the US does now all over the world, btw) in exchange for all they needed in state of the art Mikhail choppers and Sukoi planes, AND highly trained russian pilots to fly them and defend their land mass (unlike the US does). Do you forget that Ukraine was one of many new ‘countries’ that got absolutely raped in the arse by the USSR degenerating into [del]capitalism[/del] democracy? They are still recovering from it 3 decades later. If the Russian Federation wants to pull out of its former USSR contract to protect Ukraine after the collapse (by withdrawing its aircraft and services), seriously… why is this even being discussed. It’s sad and terrible, but that is democracy and independence. BTW; CIA… open field! code green, code green! INSERT AMICABLE CAPITALIST HERE! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294/51 "2014-03-28T13:23:09Z")
> [@oogabooga](#): > > If the Russian Federation wants to pull out of its former USSR contract to protect Ukraine after the collapse (by withdrawing its aircraft and services), seriously… why is this even being discussed. It’s sad and terrible, but that is democracy and independence. > > BTW; CIA… open field! code green, code green! INSERT AMICABLE CAPITALIST HERE! It isn’t “democracy and independence”, this isn’t due to Russia asserting its previous Soviet Empire lines, and we’re not all “amicable capitalists” in agreement that invading and annexing a chunk of a sovereign nation is A-okay. Any more strawman bullshit you want to trot out there? Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-plunders-ukrainian-military-equipment-is-there-a-legal-basis/684294.md?page=2)