# Russia shipping Ukrainians to far-off depressed areas of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 24, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646 "2022-03-24T18:39:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/1 "2022-03-24T18:39:03Z")
It’s the New Babylonian Captivity > [@](#): > > # Ukraine Says Moscow Is Forcibly Taking Civilians To Russia > > Russians are accused of taking Ukrainians’ passports and sending them to distant, economically depressed areas in Russia. The Kremlin said they wanted to go. > > KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine accused Moscow on Thursday of forcibly taking hundreds of thousands of civilians from shattered Ukrainian cities to Russia, where some may be used as “hostages” to pressure Kyiv to give up. > > Lyudmyla Denisova, Ukraine’s ombudsperson, said 402,000 people, including 84,000 children, have been taken against their will to Russia, and some have reported shortages of food and water there. > The Kremlin has said that the people relocated from Ukraine wanted to go to Russia. The country’s rebel-controlled eastern regions, for example, are predominantly Russian-speaking, and many people there have supported close ties to Moscow. > … > Russian Col. Gen. Mikhail Mizintsev said Wednesday that a total of 384,000 people, including over 80,000 children, of the separatist-controlled Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine have been evacuated to Russia since the start of the Russian military action. > … > But Donetsk Region Gov. Pavlo Kyrylenko said that “people are being forcibly moved into the territory of the aggressor state.” Denisova said those removed by Russian troops included a 92-year-old woman in Mariupol who was forced to go to Taganrog in southern Russia. > … > Some could be sent as far as the Pacific Ocean island of Sakhalin, Ukrainian intelligence said, and are being offered jobs on condition they don’t leave for two years. The ministry said the Russians intend to “use them as hostages and put more political pressure on Ukraine.” > **[Ukraine Says Moscow Is Forcibly Taking Civilians To Russia](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ukraine-claims-people-forced-filtration-camps-russia_n_623caf99e4b0f1e82c551e23)** > > Russians are accused of taking Ukrainians’ passports and sending them to distant, economically depressed areas in Russia. The Kremlin said they wanted to go. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/2 "2022-03-24T18:44:56Z")
Russia transporting 400,000 civilians is a bit hard to believe, given other reports that Russia is having a hard time transporting even their own war dead. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/3 "2022-03-24T18:50:05Z")
Job for two years?! What a country! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/4 "2022-03-24T18:58:19Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > Russia transporting 400,000 civilians is a bit hard to believe, given other reports that Russia is having a hard time transporting even their own war dead. And it’s a Russian general making the claim, no less. Hey, why send a bunch of empty train cars back from the Ukrainian front? ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/5 "2022-03-24T19:03:14Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Hey, why send a bunch of empty train cars back from the Ukrainian front? For some reason, this sentence, combined with Putin’s obsession with Nazis and earlier info about mobile crematoria, comes out really chilling inside my head. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/6 "2022-03-24T19:08:14Z")
If Russia really is doing this, it’s just upholding the old gulag tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/7 "2022-03-24T19:16:52Z")
Is there an area of Russia that isn’t depressed? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/8 "2022-03-24T20:28:55Z")
Mobile crematoria? I missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/9 "2022-03-24T20:33:37Z")
Earliest mention I can find is about 3 weeks ago. Not a lot since then, either. > **[Zelenskyy Says Russians Are Carrying Cremation Chambers Into Ukraine](https://news.yahoo.com/zelenskyy-says-russians-carrying-cremation-190517922.html)** > > The Ukrainian leader alleged that the chambers are to dispose of Russian troops who have been killed, thereby obscuring the true number of casualties. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/10 "2022-03-24T20:42:59Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/11 "2022-03-24T20:52:54Z")
Economically?Pperhaps. Psychologically? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/12 "2022-03-25T04:45:42Z")
Does not seem sensible. Most Ukrainians that are exiting to Russia are likely already very Russian. When things finally settle in Ukraine, if Russia gets what it wants. I think the plan would be to get those folks back to Ukraine. Particularly in the Donbass region. Ukraine is quite West/East split as to Ukraine majority areas versus Russian areas, as far as the people’s ethnicity and ethnic leanings go. It is more likely for the Russian folks to want to and be able to get out of the war zone to the east, if Russian forces are in control of the possible escape routes. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/13 "2022-03-25T05:01:23Z")
Reports about this are inconsistent, which makes me think it isn’t true. The footage I’ve seen of these “chambers” suggests they’re more suited to things like medical waste (i.e. bandages) than whole human bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/14 "2022-03-25T09:25:32Z")
I hope you’re right about that. Yes, my mind can go to some scary places. The 2020s have so far been that kind of decade. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/15 "2022-03-25T09:58:01Z")
400k people being forcibly deported is difficult to believe, given the Russians’ well publicized difficulties with just keeping warm and feeding themselves. I assume there are _some_ forced relocations happening, because the Russians have shown there is no floor on how criminally awful they’re willing to be, but 400k is a _lot._ My suspicion is that this messaging is essentially a warning from Ukrainian leaders to the civilian population: If you surrender to the Russians, you have no assurance of safety or humane treatment. Escape and resist by all means possible. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/16 "2022-03-25T10:14:36Z")
This is unlikely to be true. We may be witnessing Mass Extermination. Putin is capable of it. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/17 "2022-03-25T12:07:53Z")
The report of 400,000 deportees seems to come from spokeswoman Lyudmyla Denisova, who says that 84,000 children were in that group > **[Ukraine accuses Moscow of forcibly deporting over 400,000 people to Russia](https://nypost.com/2022/03/24/ukraine-accuses-moscow-of-forcibly-deporting-over-400000-people-to-russia/)** > > Ukraine accused Moscow on Thursday of forcibly relocating hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians from their besieged homes to Russia. A different report states that 15,000 people were deported to Russia from the city of Mariupol > **[Russia has deported 15,000 residents from Mariupol, Ukraine claims - National...](https://globalnews.ca/news/8706134/russia-mariupol-residents-deportation-ukraine-war/)** > > Ukrainian officials say civilians trapped in Mariupol, which is normally home to about 400,000 people, face a desperate plight without access to food, water, power or heat. > **[Mariupol says 15,000 deported from besieged city to Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/mariupol-says-15000-deported-besieged-city-russia-2022-03-24/)** > > Ukrainian authorities in besieged Mariupol said on Thursday about 15,000 civilians had been illegally deported to Russia since Russian forces seized parts of the southern port city. That same report states that Mariupol is “normally home to 400,000 people.” Is it possible that this is where the 400,000 figure came from? Other reports simply says that “thousands” of Ukrainians were sent back to Russia, without giving a definite number > **[Ukraine: US condemns ‘unconscionable’ forced deportations of civilians from...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/russia-bombed-mariupol-art-school-sheltering-400-people-says-ukraine)** > > Unconfirmed reports of thousands being transported to Russia emerge after Russia accused of bombing art school where residents were sheltering > **[Ukraine claims 2,389 children have been 'abducted' by Russia in forced...](https://inews.co.uk/news/ukraine-claims-2389-children-abducted-russia-forced-deportations-1532652)** > > Volodymyr Zelensky said: 'There are Russian troops who are killing and raping people and kidnapping children' The US Ambassador to the UN says we can’t verify the claims > **[US ambassador can’t confirm report of Ukrainians being deported to Russia](https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/598953-us-ambassador-cant-confirm-report-of-ukranians-being-deported/)** > > The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations said on Sunday that she could not confirm a statement by the Mariupol City Council that indicated Ukrainian citizens were being deported to Russi… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/18 "2022-03-25T12:12:52Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Does not seem sensible To be fair and even granting (which is a stretch) a vaguely rational casus belli, ‘sensible’ describes little of Russia’s actions and strategy over the last month ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/19 "2022-03-25T12:28:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > If Russia really is doing this, it’s just upholding the old gulag tradition. That, and trying to lend credibility that they are “rescuing” these people. > [@Kedikat](#): > > Does not seem sensible. Most Ukrainians that are exiting to Russia are likely already very Russian. When things finally settle in Ukraine, if Russia gets what it wants. I think the plan would be to get those folks back to Ukraine. Particularly in the Donbass region. Ukraine is quite West/East split as to Ukraine majority areas versus Russian areas, as far as the people’s ethnicity and ethnic leanings go. > It is more likely for the Russian folks to want to and be able to get out of the war zone to the east, if Russian forces are in control of the possible escape routes. I’m not sure it’s as clear cut as all that, as there are numbers of people of Russian ethnicity and language who nonetheless consider themselves Ukrainian and are fighting on Ukraine’s side in this war. The Russians, by which I mean Putin & Company, would like you to believe it’s that simple but it isn’t. As a rather potent example - President Zelenskyy’s first language was Russian and he clearly considers himself Ukrainian (he is apparently fully bilingual with Ukrainian). I don’t think we should assume that a person falls on one side or the other of this war based solely on their ethnicity or language preference. It is particularly problematic since any transported Ukrainians - of whatever ethnicity or language - are eyewitnesses to a truth that Putin wants to deny and suppress. I don’t care how pro-Russian someone from Ukraine might be (and I am certain there are some in that category) they will not be treated well nor will they have freedom of movement or access to any sort of public forum in which to speak the truth. I doubt the numbers given - statistics are exaggerated up or down in wartime as serves the speaker’s bias - but I have not doubts some people have been forced into Russia, whether at gunpoint or by impending starvation. Reports are that they are deprived of their passports and sent… somewhere by Russian authorities so once they get there, wherever there is, they can’t leave. > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > This is unlikely to be true. > We may be witnessing Mass Extermination. > Putin is capable of it. That is also a possibility but as of yet we don’t have proof. It would be good to be certain, but that is difficult in war. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646/20 "2022-03-25T16:56:55Z")
I had heard that there are a number of Ukrainians in eastern Ukraine heading east into Russia from their destroyed cities like Kharkiv, for safety reasons. It’s like if someone has a gun to your head you will go wherever there is not a gun to your head. That said, it’s going to be hard to know how many are being “forced”. I am not sure how many are in this terrible situation, but I also have a hard time with the 400K number. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-shipping-ukrainians-to-far-off-depressed-areas-of-russia/961646.md?page=2)