# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/241 "2013-09-26T06:01:40Z")
Are cites like cooties to you guys, or is it some religious proscription? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/242 "2013-09-26T06:14:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, we’re gonna need some sort of cite for that. > **[Benghazi: Obama's Actions Amount To A Shameful Dereliction Of Duty](https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/10/25/benghazi-obamas-actions-amount-to-a-shameful-dereliction-of-duty/)** > > It's time for the president to come clean about what he knew on 9/11/12. The United States Ambassador to Libya, the personal representative of President Barack Obama, had been tortured, sodomized, dragged bloody through the streets of Benghazi, and murdered. snopes says that the veracity of the exact circumstances the Ambassador’s death is [“undetermined”](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/stevens.asp). The US government’s spin machine has certainly done a job there - so believe whatever version you want. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/243 "2013-09-26T06:15:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are cites like cooties to you guys, or is it some religious proscription? What, ran out of Benghazi jokes and now you want to debate about something? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/244 "2013-09-26T06:17:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Benghazi: Obama's Actions Amount To A Shameful Dereliction Of Duty](http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/10/25/benghazi-obamas-actions-amount-to-a-shameful-dereliction-of-duty/) > > The United States Ambassador to Libya, the personal representative of President Barack Obama, had been tortured, sodomized, dragged bloody through the streets of Benghazi, and murdered. > > snopes says that the veracity of the exact circumstances the Ambassador’s death is [“undetermined”](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/stevens.asp). The US government’s spin machine has certainly done a job there - so believe whatever version you want. I believe he died hoping something would change in the next 8 hrs. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/245 "2013-09-26T06:29:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Benghazi: Obama's Actions Amount To A Shameful Dereliction Of Duty](http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/10/25/benghazi-obamas-actions-amount-to-a-shameful-dereliction-of-duty/) > > The United States Ambassador to Libya, the personal representative of President Barack Obama, had been tortured, sodomized, dragged bloody through the streets of Benghazi, and murdered. > > snopes says that the veracity of the exact circumstances the Ambassador’s death is [“undetermined”](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/stevens.asp). The US government’s spin machine has certainly done a job there - so believe whatever version you want. “Uncertain” is generous. From the Snopes you provided: > [@](#): > > …AFP said in response to the Tayyar report, “Concerning your query on the report published by a Lebanese website according to which ambassador Stevens was sodomized. That report falsely quoted our news agency and has no truth whatsover to it. AFP promptly sent a strongly worded complaint to that website and they removed the report and published a denial, saying that AFP did not report such a thing.”… Was it “uncertain” when you baldly stated it as fact? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/246 "2013-09-26T06:34:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. “May”. > > US Ambassador got raped, murdered, and dragged through the streets. No visible reaction from US. “Sealed indictments” indeed. That certainly is a deterrent. Cite a credible source that Ambassador Stevens was raped. If you can’t you should apologize to his family and the world. > [@](#): > > Separate from the controversy swirling around the failures of the White House, the intent of this article is to focus on the inaccurate rumor that the death of United States Ambassador to Libya Christopher J. Stevens was the result of anything other than smoke inhalation. Abundant evidence exists to prove that he was rescued by Libyan citizens after the failure of the safe-room where he took shelter during the attack on the consulate, and that he was not sexually assaulted as some have said. > > [http://truthprocess.com/the-death-of-us-ambassador-chris-stevens-the-real-facts/](http://truthprocess.com/the-death-of-us-ambassador-chris-stevens-the-real-facts/) > [@](#): > > Video Shows Libyans Retrieving Envoy’s Body > By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK > Published: September 16, 2012 > CAIRO — An amateur video that surfaced Sunday appears to show a crowd removing the motionless body of Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens from a window of the American mission in Benghazi, Libya, after it was attacked last week by Islamist militants, adding new details to reports that Mr. Stevens had died of smoke inhalation while locked in a safe room. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/world/middleeast/video-appears-to-show-libyans-retrieving-envoys-body.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/world/middleeast/video-appears-to-show-libyans-retrieving-envoys-body.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/247 "2013-09-26T06:48:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Benghazi: Obama's Actions Amount To A Shameful Dereliction Of Duty](http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/10/25/benghazi-obamas-actions-amount-to-a-shameful-dereliction-of-duty/) > > The United States Ambassador to Libya, the personal representative of President Barack Obama, had been tortured, sodomized, dragged bloody through the streets of Benghazi, and murdered. > > snopes says that the veracity of the exact circumstances the Ambassador’s death is [“undetermined”](http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/stevens.asp). The US government’s spin machine has certainly done a job there - so believe whatever version you want. Your Forbes cite is an OP-Ed. Can you confirm with one real news agency that this oped writer is telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/248 "2013-09-26T06:58:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Your Forbes cite is an OP-Ed. Can you confirm with one real news agency that this oped writer is telling the truth? As I said, the US government spin machine has worked overtime on this, since if the news was true, it would be embarrassing for the US. But even with all that, snopes still calls it “undetermined”. For whatever that’s worth. You started this subthread by criticizing my prediction. Apparently Obama actually managed to do less than I expected. Mea culpa. I won’t expect so much from him again. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/249 "2013-09-26T10:44:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As I said, the US government spin machine has worked overtime on this, since if the news was true, it would be embarrassing for the US. But even with all that, snopes still calls it “undetermined”. For whatever that’s worth. . If your only source is Snopes and they tell you the original news reoport falsley credited the rape report to AFP and then AFP emphatically denied the report as true and not their report, why did you repeat it as a fact as part of your argument? . ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/250 "2013-09-26T12:39:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Uncertain” is generous. From the Snopes you provided: > > Was it “uncertain” when you baldly stated it as fact? He’s dead because Obama didn’t do a damn thing for 8 hrs. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/251 "2013-09-26T13:58:13Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If your only source is Snopes and they tell you the original news reoport falsley credited the rape report to AFP and then AFP emphatically denied the report as true and not their report, why did you repeat it as a fact as part of your argument? Is it a fact that he was raped? It’s “uncertain”. Is it a fact that he was murdered and Obama did nothing? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/252 "2013-09-26T14:04:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He’s dead because Obama didn’t do a damn thing for 8 hrs. Back that up with something/ timeline/ military assets available or retract it. Twenty some Americans were evacuated and rescued - it is unfortunate that the Ambassador and one other were separated from the rescued group. Stevens went to the safe room and the structure was set on fire. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/253 "2013-09-26T15:06:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Is it a fact that he was murdered and Obama did nothing? Yes. The second part is not a fact, but in fact ridiculous political spin. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/254 "2013-09-26T15:23:27Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Back that up with something/ timeline/ military assets available or retract it. > > Twenty some Americans were evacuated and rescued - it is unfortunate that the Ambassador and one other were separated from the rescued group. Stevens went to the safe room and the structure was set on fire. Prior to the event they pulled out Security that was already there despite requests for more security. [cite](http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/10/security_team_pulled_out_of_libya_in_august.html). During the attack they ruled out an anti-terrorism team. [cite](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/05/17/cbs-news-benghazi-counterterrorism-response-team-ruled-out-from-the-start-n1599731). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/255 "2013-09-26T16:03:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The second part is not a fact, but in fact ridiculous political spin. Anybody got an autopsy report to back up their claims of what did or did not happen? I can’t find one. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/256 "2013-09-26T16:04:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Is it a fact that he was raped? It’s “uncertain”. Is it a fact that he was murdered and Obama did nothing? Yes. It is a fact on video that it was friendly Libyans that found him in bad shape and took him to the hospital where he died of smoke inhalation. There is no evidence of rape and then murder. When something is uncertain with no credible evidence that it actually hapoened no one should go around stating it as fact in arguments as Terr has done. There are absolutely no facts that Obama did nothing. That is absurd to even suggest such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/257 "2013-09-26T16:37:41Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > It is a fact on video You cannot tell who is on video, it could be Ahmed the janitor. > [@](#): > > There are absolutely no facts that Obama did nothing. That is absurd to even suggest such a thing. Seriously? Was anyone arrested for the murder? Were there any reprisals? Was anyone at all punished for the death of the Ambassador? Hell, was anyone in the State dept. fired for the screwup? No? That’s because Obama did nothing. Well, no, I am wrong, he did do something. He made a strong-worded speech. That’s about the only thing he is good at. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/258 "2013-09-26T17:33:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You cannot tell who is on video, it could be Ahmed the janitor. > Seriously? Was anyone arrested for the murder? Were there any reprisals? Was anyone at all punished for the death of the Ambassador? Hell, was anyone in the State dept. fired for the screwup? No? That’s because Obama did nothing. Well, no, I am wrong, he did do something. He made a strong-worded speech. That’s about the only thing he is good at. Do you know who started the fire that led to the Steven’s death? And do you know the wherebouts of that person(s). If you do please contact the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/259 "2013-09-26T17:40:27Z")
Well, if he had nuked Benghazi soon enough, before the arsonist could escape, he would surely have gotten him! Only way to be sure… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/260 "2013-09-26T17:47:17Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Do you know who started the fire that led to the Steven’s death? And do you know the wherebouts of that person(s). If you do please contact the FBI. Yep. I should do the investigation. Not Obama administration. Gotcha. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=14)