# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/281 "2013-09-28T00:28:02Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > “Which world leader was most effective during the Syrian chemical weapons crisis?” > > Was Putin or Obama the most effective leader at projecting their nation on the side of moral goodness and the betterment of mankind … You have a comedic gift for putting lipstick on things. Not one person in Syria was saved by this resolution. it has all the teeth of an earthworm. They’re busy killing [each](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/30-killed-in-Syria-car-bomb-blast/articleshow/23170370.cms) [other](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/21/syria-bashar-assad-kill-soldiers) in spite of the moral goodness bestowed upon them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/282 "2013-09-28T00:46:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have a comedic gift for putting lipstick on things. Not one person in Syria was saved by this resolution. it has all the teeth of an earthworm. They’re busy killing [each](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/30-killed-in-Syria-car-bomb-blast/articleshow/23170370.cms) [other](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/21/syria-bashar-assad-kill-soldiers) in spite of the moral goodness bestowed upon them. You have a not so funny gift of misreading the written word. Here is what I wrote: “For Innocent civilians the fear of being gassed to death by their government in Syria is now extremely greatly reduced.” 1000 Tons of Chemical Weapons are being destroyed under the supervision of the CWC and UNSC and an agreement set in Geneva between the US and Russia. Now just leaving them be somehow means to you that no one will ever be killed by these weapons ever again. That is an absurd point of view that you’ve aligned yourself with. I know they are killing each other with conventional weapons. I didn’t say the CW dismantling process would stop that and now one has ever suggest that it would. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/283 "2013-09-28T00:56:16Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Despite what Magiver says, I’ll take the guy with the Tomahawk over the guy playing a fiddle. The likelihood of using them after the show of weakness in Benghazi was further diminished by the lack of international, national, or political support. Beyond that the worst that could happen with the unbelievably small show of force is a couple more people dead in Syria. Putin got Obama to kick the political can down the road with the toothless resolution which further weakens Obama’s political position. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/284 "2013-09-28T00:58:23Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You have a not so funny gift of misreading the written word. Here is what I wrote: > > “For Innocent civilians the fear of being gassed to death by their government in Syria is now extremely greatly reduced.” > 1000 Tons of Chemical Weapons are being destroyed under the supervision of the CWC and UNSC and an agreement set in Geneva between the US and Russia. That you believe the threat of chemical weapons in Syria is gone is amazing. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/285 "2013-09-28T03:15:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That you believe the threat of chemical weapons in Syria is gone is amazing. That you cannot copy my statement and respond to what I wrote is an amazing problem that you have. I didnt say it was ‘gone’ I wrote this. Can you argue agsinst my point as I wrote it? “For Innocent civilians the fear of being gassed to death by their government in Syria is now extremely greatly reduced.” Greatly ‘reduced’ is not ‘gone’. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/286 "2013-09-28T03:43:36Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > That you cannot copy my statement and respond to what I wrote is an amazing problem that you have. > > I didnt say it was ‘gone’ I wrote this. Can you argue agsinst my point as I wrote it? > “For Innocent civilians the fear of being gassed to death by their government in Syria is now extremely greatly reduced.” > > Greatly ‘reduced’ is not ‘gone’. That you believe the person SELLING weapons to ASSAD and who brokered a toothless UN resolution is going to destroy all the CW’s in Syria. This was a UN resolution, not something the United States would stick to like an agreement with Native Americans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/287 "2013-09-28T04:06:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The United Nations Security Council adopted a resolution Friday ordering the eradication of Syria’s chemical weapons. The Security Council passed the decision unanimously – with 15 votes in favor… > **[World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From...](https://www.nbcnews.com/world?lite)** > > Get the latest news, updates, and video from around the globe. How much longer will this fool Obama embarrass us with his floundering attempts to build some sort of consensus! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/288 "2013-09-28T04:09:18Z")
> **[U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news?lite)** > > Get the latest news headlines and top stories from NBCNews.com. Find videos and news articles on the latest stories in the US. Oh, I see! So, a little phone call with our sworn enemy, Iran, and suddenly the Russians and Chinese are all on board! So, does high treason reach the threshold for impeachment amongst the Obama worshippers? Wake up, America! Connect the dot! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/289 "2013-09-28T04:31:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics, Economy, and Society | NBC News](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/27/20724873-obama-rouhani-phone-call-gets-divided-reception?lite) > > Oh, I see! So, a little phone call with our sworn enemy, Iran, and suddenly the Russians and Chinese are all on board! So, does high treason reach the threshold for impeachment amongst the Obama worshippers? > > Wake up, America! Connect the dot! [uh, you do know that Putin beat Obama to the punch don’t you?](http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/14/report-putin-to-travel-to-iran-for-nuclear-strategy-talks/) And Iran threatened to attack Saudi Oil fields if the US bombed Syria? And you’re still wondering why the resolution with no teeth was agreed to by everybody? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/290 "2013-09-28T08:34:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That you believe the person SELLING weapons to ASSAD and who brokered a toothless UN resolution is going to destroy all the CW’s in Syria. This was a UN resolution, not something the United States would stick to like an agreement with Native Americans. No matter what, you have not apologized for changing my word used ‘reduced’ to ‘gone’ . So why do you do things like that and then try to wiggle out of it by changing the subject? Putin has a huge investment in never seeing Assad use CW again. The threat to civilians is greatly reduced (CW) because apparently Putin fears even a limited strike by Obama’s military. Putin changed his position on disarming Syria not Obama. You have never explained Putin’s come around to Obama’s military objective. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/291 "2013-09-28T08:41:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And you’re still wondering why the resolution with no teeth was agreed to by everybody? 1441 for Iraq was passed unanimously too. Did that Resolution have teeth? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/292 "2013-09-28T10:55:07Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > 1441 for Iraq was passed unanimously too. Did that Resolution have teeth? Yes. 1441 was passed under Chapter 7. Unlike the resolution on Syria. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/293 "2013-09-28T13:36:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [uh, you do know that Putin beat Obama to the punch don’t you?](http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/14/report-putin-to-travel-to-iran-for-nuclear-strategy-talks/) And Iran threatened to attack Saudi Oil fields if the US bombed Syria? > > And you’re still wondering why the resolution with no teeth was agreed to by everybody? _Daily Caller_. Very droll. Who says you guys don’t have a sense of humor? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/294 "2013-09-28T16:28:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. 1441 was passed under Chapter 7. Unlike the resolution on Syria. Language in 1441 says no automatic trigger for sanctions or war just like the new Syria resolution. That’s teeth in 1441 but no teeth in the Syria Resolution. What a farce. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/295 "2013-09-28T18:04:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. 1441 was passed under Chapter 7. Unlike the resolution on Syria. Chapter Seven was invoked on Iraq in 1991, but 1441 was a final opportunity for Iraq to comply. Just like Syria in order to authorize force the UNSC was to reconvene to decide because 1441 had no automatic trigger for war. And today’s reporting sounds as if Syria has the same situation: > [@](#): > > “We also wanted a resolution that would be enforced. And again, that is what the Security Council has adopted. We are here because actions have consequences. And now, should the regime fail to act, there will be consequences. Progress will be reported back to the Security Council frequently, and in the event of noncompliance, the Council will impose measures under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter,” Kerry said. That’s from this Report: UNSC Unanimously Adopts Resolution to Destroy Syria’s CW 28 September 2013 | In a major breakthrough, the UN Security Council today voted unanimously on a resolution to destroy Syria’s chemicals weapons stockpile and warned of strong actions in case of non-compliance by Damascus. [http://m.outlookindia.com/items.aspx/?artid=811842&maneref=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.search.yahoo.com%2Fmobile%3B\_ylt%3DA2KJ3CQvFkdS.n4A6GxEDex\_%3B\_ylc%3DX1MDMjE0NjE3NjMyNARfcgMyBGFjdG4Da2V5YnJkBGNzcmNwdmlkA1UxWWpaV0tKM0NFYkI5UnZUbkdKMndRenJVbWpMMUpIRmk4QUJLRm0Ebl9zdWdnAzgEcG9zAzAEcXN0cmwDMjkEcXVlcnkDdGV4dCBVTlNDIFJlc29sdXRpb24gb24gU3lyaWEEdnRlc3RpZAM-%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26fr2%3Dp%26p%3Dtext%2BUNSC%2BResolution%2Bon%2BSyria](http://m.outlookindia.com/items.aspx/?artid=811842&maneref=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.search.yahoo.com%2Fmobile%3B_ylt%3DA2KJ3CQvFkdS.n4A6GxEDex_%3B_ylc%3DX1MDMjE0NjE3NjMyNARfcgMyBGFjdG4Da2V5YnJkBGNzcmNwdmlkA1UxWWpaV0tKM0NFYkI5UnZUbkdKMndRenJVbWpMMUpIRmk4QUJLRm0Ebl9zdWdnAzgEcG9zAzAEcXN0cmwDMjkEcXVlcnkDdGV4dCBVTlNDIFJlc29sdXRpb24gb24gU3lyaWEEdnRlc3RpZAM-%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26fr2%3Dp%26p%3Dtext%2BUNSC%2BResolution%2Bon%2BSyria) So Terr, is that more teeth than what Rand Paul would have gotten from his powerful Kumbayahhhhh message that we should fear what would happen if we dare strike Syria as Obama was threatening to do. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/296 "2013-09-28T19:23:30Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Language in 1441 says no automatic trigger for sanctions or war just like the new Syria resolution. Cite that language. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/297 "2013-09-28T19:24:46Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > “We also wanted a resolution that would be enforced. And again, that is what the Security Council has adopted. We are here because actions have consequences. And now, should the regime fail to act, there will be consequences. Progress will be reported back to the Security Council frequently, and in the event of noncompliance, the Council will impose measures under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter,” Kerry said. Kerry “forgot” to add “only if Russia agrees”. And Russia made it clear, repeatedly, that it will not. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/298 "2013-09-28T19:43:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Kerry “forgot” to add “only if Russia agrees”. And Russia made it clear, repeatedly, that it will not. Cite that from Russia after the unanimous vote yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/299 "2013-09-28T19:47:18Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Cite that from Russia after the unanimous vote yesterday. Immediately after you cite “the language in 1441 [that] says no automatic trigger for sanctions or war” as you claimed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/300 "2013-09-28T20:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. > > As you said, the Security Council faces a vote next week \*on a resolution implicitly authorizing an attack on Iraq. \*Will you call for a vote on that resolution, even if you aren’t sure you have the votes? > > BUSH: Well, first, I don’t think – it basically says that he is in defiance of 1441. That’s what the resolution says. > > And it’s hard to believe anybody saying he isn’t in defiance of 1441 because 1441 said he must disarm. > > And yes, we’ll call for a vote. > > QUESTION: No matter what? > > BUSH: No matter what the whip count is, we’re calling for the vote… > **[CNN.com - Transcript of Bush news conference on Iraq - Mar. 6, 2003](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/06/bush.speech.transcript/)** (emphasis added) If there were an “automatic trigger”, why did the question ever arise? Why, then, did Bush say he was gong to ask for that “implicit” vote if the matter were so clear that it wasn’t needed? What part of 1441 names George Bush as the decider on the matter of compliance? And, no. No, he didn’t press for that vote. Somebody on staff could count, and told him he would lose. And that threat to “see their cards”? Poof! Gone! Never happened, pound the drums, pass around the ammunition. 1441 didn’t give him all he wanted, so he was going to try for another, “implicit” resolution. And then suddenly he realized that 1441 _did_ give him everything he wanted. For some men, revelations are very convenient experiences… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=16)