# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/21 "2013-09-14T18:52:37Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > They are not turning them over to Russia. All production facilities must be destroyed by November. Yes, and you must have missed my quote and link from the Washington Post that said they were to be sent to Russia for destruction (maybe)? See, that’s the thing - this is just a framework right now, nothing has been finally or formally decided, yet Victory is at Hand. Get back to me in mid-November when everything is resolved and they’re dancing in the streets of Damascus. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/22 "2013-09-14T18:57:17Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Yes, and you must have missed my quote and link from the Washington Post that said they were to be sent to Russia for destruction (maybe)? > > See, that’s the thing - this is just a framework right now, nothing has been finally or formally decided, yet Victory is at Hand. > > Get back to me in mid-November when everything is resolved and they’re dancing in the streets of Damascus. Well. I don’t think anyone has claimed that we’ll be greeted as liberators. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/23 "2013-09-14T19:07:57Z")
We’re not going to be greeted at all, we’re not going to Damascus. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/24 "2013-09-14T19:14:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > we’re not going to Damascus. And I have a feeling that the UN inspectors won’t be going there, either. Despite the nicely worded resolution. Or, if they do get there, they will be totally ineffective. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/25 "2013-09-14T19:17:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > We’re not going to be greeted at all, we’re not going to Damascus. :smack: …you knew what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/26 "2013-09-14T19:26:13Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > And I have a feeling that the UN inspectors won’t be going there, either. Despite the nicely worded resolution. Or, if they do get there, they will be totally ineffective. With all due respect, your feelings aside, that remains to be seen. What we do have, bottom line, is a potential agreement for Syria to stop using chemical weapons and to destroy the chemical weapons they possess. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/27 "2013-09-14T19:30:40Z")
> [@The\_Understander](#): > > With all due respect, your feelings aside, that remains to be seen. What we do have, bottom line, is a potential agreement for Syria to stop using chemical weapons and to destroy the chemical weapons they possess. Have a heart-if they can’t be gleeful about Obama failing, at least let them have their _potential_ glee at a _possible_ failure. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/28 "2013-09-14T19:37:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have a heart-if they can’t be gleeful about Obama failing, at least let them have their _potential_ glee at a _possible_ failure. Hey. I _said_ with all due respect. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/29 "2013-09-14T19:38:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have a heart-if they can’t be gleeful about Obama failing, at least let them have their _potential_ glee at a _possible_ failure. I’m not trying to be gleeful—but I am being realistic. The agreement looks great on paper. But , like so many UN issues, it totally lacks teeth. So right now, we can only hope that somehow it works. But, for me, it’s hard to see how. A few days ago, Obama was talking about taking action and launching missiles. I’m not sure it was a good idea–but it did seem to scare Assad. Now, Obama is talking about dismantling WMD, which is a great idea, of course. But with no threat of action if it fails, I dont see why Assad will be scared enough to comply. But we’ll have to wait several months to see. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/30 "2013-09-14T19:50:18Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So—I predict: > > (snip) Have you considered sending this to Glenn Beck? He’ll sell a million copies. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/31 "2013-09-14T19:58:06Z")
> [@](#): > > …international inspectors are to be on the ground in Syria… In the middle of an ongoing war? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/32 "2013-09-14T20:05:15Z")
> [@The\_Understander](#): > > Maybe there have been behind-the-scenes conversations whereby the USA has pushed this compromise onto Russia. But I don’t think so. I just don’t see where we (speaking as an American) have leverage to make Russia do anything it doesn’t want to do. > > But you could be right. If so, it’s\* really \*a masterstroke rather than just the well-positioned bluff plus background diplomacy that I currently see this as. Thanks for providing a good discussion. Consider this point on US leverage in Syria. Putin’s Syria predicament is huge. He cannot lose his Naval Base because at home he would be ridiculed. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/33 "2013-09-14T20:12:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have a heart-if they can’t be gleeful about Obama failing, at least let them have their _potential_ glee at a _possible_ failure. Sour grapes produce the bitterest of whines. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/34 "2013-09-14T20:23:32Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > In the middle of an ongoing war? Absolutely. The production facilities we know where they are and the are not in rebel laden areas. These facilities can be destroyed/decommissioned immediately by the Syrian Army and then the UN inspecters buzz in to verify it. The rest of any stockpile CW that exist are reported to be in two to four locations. One is a major port. This is doable. Sorry if the answer to your question disappoints you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/35 "2013-09-14T21:04:01Z")
> [@The\_Understander](#): > > … it is perfectly cromulent for the US/UN/NATO whomever to come down like a ton of bricks on any country using WMD. This is coming down on Syria like a ton of bricks? It gives Assad some time to stall and negotiate while he kills the rebels, and in a few months when everyone has lost interest, he can hand over some chem weapons and say he is done. Or just declare that he can’t agree to anything. Nothing will happen - nobody except the French were willing to go along with military action, so they aren’t going to use military force six months from now either. Russia and Putin come out of this pretty well - Syria is a client state, so Russia can get some hard currency from selling Assad weapons, and does not have to worry about another Islamofascist regime in the area. Obama looks fairly weak, ineffectual, and lucky. It is only Putin who is giving Obama an out. BHO wasn’t even sure he could get his own Congress to authorize him to do something he could have done all along. I suppose this deal, if it goes thru, is better than air strikes, but that isn’t saying much. And it is really hard to see this as any kind of master stroke by Obama. Obama tried to get permission from everybody to do something, couldn’t get it, and now Putin is pulling his chestnuts out of the fire. [QUOTE=jtgain] The deal should have included a UN authorization for force if the agreement was breached. [/QUOTE] Should have. Didn’t. And won’t. They are all too aware of what happened when they passed resolutions about Iraq that implied that they meant what they said. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/36 "2013-09-14T21:31:49Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Consider this point on US leverage in Syria. Putin’s Syria predicament is huge. He cannot lose his Naval Base because at home he would be ridiculed. Soooo… how does Russia getting their ally to give up some of their firepower ensure Russia won’t lose their base, which you seem to think is the lynchpin of all of this? The only way that happens is if Assad stays in power… so you’re saying there’s some kind of deal to make that happen? Seems you’d be against that, but… with you, there’s no telling. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/37 "2013-09-14T21:33:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have a heart-if they can’t be gleeful about Obama failing, at least let them have their _potential_ glee at a _possible_ failure. And the converse is true - we can let you have your \*potential \*glee at a _possible_ success. However, _our_ version of success ends with Assad out of power and the war over. _ **YOUR** _ version of success ends up with Assad still in power and the war continuing. Which is the better option…? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/38 "2013-09-14T21:41:15Z")
> [@The\_Understander](#): > > Maybe there have been behind-the-scenes conversations whereby the USA has pushed this compromise onto Russia. But I don’t think so. I just don’t see where we (speaking as an American) have leverage to make Russia do anything it doesn’t want to do. Well, you _have_ such leverage - you just have to go all missile-crisis brinksman on them, and Syria’s not a fraction important enough for that. Anyhoo, Syria’s going to be feeding itself though a meat-grinder for the next few months regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/39 "2013-09-14T21:53:02Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The rest of any stockpile CW that exist are reported to be in two to four locations. The consensus actually seems to be [45](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/14/us-russia-agree-deal-o_n_3925636.html) to [50](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324755104579071330713553794.html). It’ll be a great result if it works, but inaccurate numbers and immediate _ad hominems_ don’t inspire a lot of confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/40 "2013-09-14T22:17:30Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > . . . However, _our_ version of success ends with Assad out of power and the war over. . . . Sure, because all of the different rebel factions will join together in a harmonious government of unity and cooperation, and not fight among themselves at all. Just like in Libya. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=3)