# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/401 "2013-10-13T04:56:51Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “The art of the possible.” Once Obama had asked Congress to back him, and they refused, he pretty much couldn’t go forward with strikes. The lack of public support also made it unworkable. > > Yes, he could have gone ahead and done it. But it would have been unwise, and, whatever else you may say about Obama, he is not a fool. It would have been a liability and undermined whatever (few!) hopes he may have had of getting anything accomplished in cooperation with Congress in the years remaining in his term. > > Nixon could have nuked Hanoi, too. It would have been entirely within his power. It just would have been a colossal blunder. Obama striking against Syria would have been a slightly lesser blunder, but still a blunder. Leadership in both chambers of Congress backed a strike. The Senate had an authorization make it through Committee. Once Putin offered to get Assad to give up his CW, the dynamics changed. Congress had not refused by the time Putin caved. I’m sure you are speaking hypothetically. One of my points to Magiver is that Putin caved a few days prior to Obama’s address to the nation. So it is quite lame to say that it was dead certain that Congress would no authorize force. And Putin’s cave in made it more difficult to press for strikes. Once Putin caved I definitely was preferring that the diplomatic means be given a try. What people like Magiver forget is that Obama’s military objective will be met if Assad’s arsenal is destroyed. The results of threatening military action has produced a better result than whatever the strikes could have accomplished. That Obama went ahead pressing for strikes against public opinion is commendable … not a blunder. His commitment to what was right got us the deterrence and destruction activities we are seeing in action today. But thanks for pointing out to Magiver that Obama has the authority to strike when he made the red-line comment in August 2012 because he is President. That is unless Romney won the election and then a Republican would have had to drum up public and world support to potentially send ground troops in. Lucky for us and our troops… Romney lost. But Obama had the authority to strike when he first drew the red line and after he asked Congress to support it and if it were the case that Congress gave no authority - He still could have done it. And I see no blunder there. Do you think that if Obama had done the Rand Paul hide the US Military in the chicken coop mentality that Putin would have offered to rein Assad in? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/402 "2014-01-02T05:18:17Z")
A [hiccup](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/31/syria-misses-chemical-weapons-deadline) in the process. Apparently the Syrians have [missed](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/syria-blamed-for-missed-deadline-on-chemical-arsenal/2013/12/30/8356c350-719d-11e3-8b3f-b1666705ca3b_story.html) the deadline to begin transport of the first batch of their chemical weaponry. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/403 "2014-01-02T08:27:18Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > A [hiccup](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/31/syria-misses-chemical-weapons-deadline) in the process. Apparently the Syrians have [missed](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/syria-blamed-for-missed-deadline-on-chemical-arsenal/2013/12/30/8356c350-719d-11e3-8b3f-b1666705ca3b_story.html) the deadline to begin transport of the first batch of their chemical weaponry. Wow, who could have predicted that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/404 "2014-01-02T13:11:54Z")
Another brilliant masterstroke by the greatest President in recorded history. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/405 "2014-01-02T13:30:15Z")
From the link: > [@](#): > > U.S. officials conceded that a Tuesday deadline for ridding Syria of hundreds of tons of liquid poisons would not be met, citing stalled progress in transporting the chemicals across war-ravaged countryside to ships that will carry them out of the region. But the officials insisted that the overall effort to destroy President Bashar al-Assad’s chemical arsenal was on track. > > “We continue to make progress, which has been the important part,” State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf told reporters. “It was always an ambitious timeline, but we are still operating on the June 30th timeline for the complete destruction.” Efforts by those who wish to diss this process are pathetically weak. It did not have to be ambitious timeline but within a few months they are attempting to transport CW through a war torn country to put them on ships. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/406 "2014-01-02T13:36:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Another brilliant masterstroke by the greatest President in recorded history. > > Regards, > Shodan If it truly were a major violation of the terms of the UNSC agreement Obama could still bomb Syria for violating it. We have not destroyed our conventional aresenal by any means. So what could be your point? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/407 "2014-01-02T13:55:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > In the middle of an ongoing war? Yepp inspectors are in Syria in the middle of an ongoing war. Your doubts were misplaced and incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/408 "2014-01-02T14:00:38Z")
**NfbW** , I think you should start a thread entitled, “Obama’s amazing achievement of the day.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/409 "2014-01-02T14:03:52Z")
There’s a Rand Paul hide-the-chicken video on YouTube, but to see it you have to be at least 18. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/410 "2014-01-02T14:17:21Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If it truly were a major violation of the terms of the UNSC agreement Obama could still bomb Syria for violating it. We have not destroyed our conventional aresenal by any means. So what could be your point? That yes, Obama can’t, and no, he did. And that he planned it all along, suckering in Putin so that he wouldn’t do what he didn’t not want to avoid refraining from not abstaining from doing. Also, cite that I claimed Obama couldn’t bomb Syria, or that this isn’t a major violation. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/411 "2014-01-02T14:18:48Z")
Also, Obama is great. And everyone else is a neo-con. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/412 "2014-01-02T14:19:48Z")
And a quisling, but not in a way that anyone else means. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/413 "2014-01-02T14:26:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you look at the op’s name as a mission statement it makes sense. W is a false god to be trotted out as needed. > > The main objective of the op is to prove that a political endeavor with no internal public/political support and no international support is a stroke of genius. This was accomplished by forcing Putin to do his bidding to rid Syria of chemical weapons by 2014. All this was done with the threat of an unbelievably small use of force. I think Putin is also working on a cure for cancer so it should be a good year. > [@Magiver](#): > > Putin was never threatened with force. And you cannot really be so naive as to believe Putin is going to make CW’s go away in Syria. If there was ever any blinking done by him it was with one eye. CW are going away in Syria in 2014 -perhaps by June - hiccup or not for some of the more remote stockpiles. You were wrong and much more proven wrong now. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/414 "2014-01-02T14:34:54Z")
I’m posting facts and conclusions based upon facts and reason. If facts and reason support the President and none here can dispute the facts so be it, including for those not having a preference for a fact-based discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/415 "2014-01-02T14:36:00Z")
Still waiting for the cite. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/416 "2014-01-02T14:49:27Z")
I make no bones about my support for the Administration, but come on – White House policy toward Syria cannot be called “masterful” by any meaningful definition of the term. Elimination of illegal CW stockpiles is a good thing, but there is no “masterful” policy toward Syria that does not result in the end of the civil war and Assad being thrown from power. It may be that Assad does fall from power in the next many months or couple years – who knows? But even then, the Administration’s policy toward Syria could not be called “masterful” because it will have taken several years and hundreds of thousands of lives in order to achieve it. Nobody – absolutely nobody – has draped themselves in glory with respect to the situation in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/417 "2014-01-02T14:49:29Z")
Nothing to see here, everything is going according to plan. In fact, this delay is a good thing, because it allows Obama to show how magnanimous he is by not striking Syria because it missed this deadline. Bush would have invaded at 12:00:01am, after all. Hail, Obama! Oh, you doubters - why do you oppose this magnificent president at every turne? Could it be… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/418 "2014-01-02T14:54:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > there is no “masterful” policy toward Syria that does not result in the end of the civil war and Assad being thrown from power. I’m pretty sure there’s no policy at all that will result in that, masterful or not. The bloody clusterfuck will continue until enough people are dead that the war grinds to a halt from inertia, either before or after Assad goes, and not without a lot of outside powers contributing to the mess. > [@](#): > > Nobody – absolutely nobody – has draped themselves in glory with respect to the situation in Syria. Nor are they likely to. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/419 "2014-01-02T14:57:14Z")
Are girls in Syria going to school? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/420 "2014-01-02T15:02:14Z")
Why isn’t everyone celebrating the fact (not an opinion!) that so many Syrians are now living in Jordan? Jordan, as a fact, not an opinion, is a better place than Syria. We know this fact, which is not an opinion, because there is no civil war going on in Jordan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=22)