# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/641 "2014-01-11T19:15:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [If Assad fails to comply](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/14/world/la-fg-syria-chemical-deal-20130915), Kerry said the United Nations Security Council would consider a resolution to impose punitive measures that could include sanctions. Russia remains opposed to any resolution that would allow armed intervention in Syria, however, so the U.N.'s ability to enforce the disarmament is uncertain and critics said Assad had little incentive to comply. > > Even if Obama is stupid enough to go against political and public desires to stay out of it and launches a couple of pity missiles it won’t change anybody’s mind. [This is per the Syrian government and rebels.](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10293591/Syrias-rebels-and-soldiers-agree-military-strikes-will-change-nothing.html) Nothing in Magiver’s response contradicts the events in the timeline that I presented. It is therefore not possible to figure out what Magiver is trying to tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/642 "2014-01-11T20:19:57Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > No he didnt, he said Assad would or Assad wouldn’t but then Shodan broke his own argument with himself and said nothing would happen. > > Shodan wrote, _“It gives Assad some time to stall and negotiate while he kills the rebels, and in a few months when everyone has lost interest, he can hand over some chem weapons and say he is done. Or just declare that he can’t agree to anything. Nothing will happen.”_ > That’s pretty sloppy. He ‘might’ hand ‘some’ over which is already proven not true. He has handed all his CW over to OPCW. Or with much more assertiveness that Assad will declare that he can’t agree to anything. And then Shodan summarizes by concluding that nothing can’t happen. Again I repeat my request that you not repost things that you manifestly don’t/can’t understand. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/643 "2014-01-11T20:35:55Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What is your argument, then? Explain why people who scoffed at the idea of the weapons being safely removed from a war zone have been shown to be wrong, without arguing that safety can never be assured, or that the drivers doing the removing will take precautions. The scoffers last year were scoffing at the President of the United States of America for being taken in, suckered, by the almighty Putin and his puppet Assad. They scoffed at the talk of a deal, the talk of a plan to sieze control and destroy Syria’s chemical weapon arsenal. They scoffed at that time because the scoffers knew so much about it they were enjoying a chance to scoff at the leaders of the civilized nations of the world including Obama, and scoff at the UNSC members, and to scoff at the OPCW, for posing such a rediculous idea that the OPCW could even enter a war zone to locate and inventory the CW to prepare it for destruction or removal. Another goal assigned to OPCW was to destroy all Syria’s CW production facilities. That goal has been accomplished safely in a war zone. The scoffers have been shown ever so clearly that they were absolutely wrong. No one has been reported hurt that I am aware of and after a week delay the first shipment of CW has been safely ever so safely amazingly safely out of the Syrian war zone. The scoffers I’m addressing were saying last fall that the OPCW workers would be shot by snipers just going in. The scoffers are proven so wrong its not even arguable at this point. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/644 "2014-01-11T21:03:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again I repeat my request that you not repost things that you manifestly don’t/can’t understand. > > Regards, > Shodan Apparently Humsn Action can’t understand you. I understand you. You are a partisan hack that scoffed at the Kerry/Lavrov Geneva deal. You said nothing would be done. Three months later plenty has already been done and you are proven to be wrong. That is so simple to understand I don’t know why an intelligent person like H.Action thinks you were vague and why H.Action thinks you are still right to scoff at this. Do you admit that something, has been done to rid the war zone of CW so that Assad cannot gas women and children to death with them? And terrorists can’t get the deadliest gases anymore. And that when a transition governent takes over there will be one huge dangerous aspect that will need not be addressed? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/645 "2014-01-11T21:34:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Apparently Humsn Action can’t understand you. I understand you. At this point I am not sure you understand anything posted in this thread, your own posts included. Put it this way - this board is heavily slanted in favor of Obama. Yet of every single poster who has participated in this thread, not one agrees with you. Not one. Liberal, moderate, conservative, lunatic fringers - not one. Does that tell you anything at all? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/646 "2014-01-11T22:03:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Does that tell you anything at all? I think the problem is he believes anything the other twenty-five letters of the alphabet tell him. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/647 "2014-01-11T22:21:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > At this point I am not sure you understand anything posted in this thread, your own posts included. > > Put it this way - this board is heavily slanted in favor of Obama. Yet of every single poster who has participated in this thread, not one agrees with you. Not one. Liberal, moderate, conservative, lunatic fringers - not one. > > Does that tell you anything at all? > > Regards, > Shodan What’s any of that have to do with the FACT that you said nothing would get done in Syria to remove the threat of CW and now youve been shown to be laughingly wrong. And its a joke if what you are saying is that it is majority rule on determine facts from fiction and correct from error. In the year of our Lord 900AD the majority of people in Christianized Europe who could think about such things were certain that the earth was flat. Majority rule is not what you think it is in every case. That you can’t admit you were wrong about the Geneva deal getting done and progress made is not forgiven because of some notion that more people agree with you. That means all the scoffers are wrong too and now they’ve mostly gone away. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/648 "2014-01-11T22:26:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the problem is he believes anything the other twenty-five letters of the alphabet tell him. What do you believe L.Nemo? Has ‘nothing happened’ in getting Syria’s CW under international control, inventoried, safely transferred to a ship and enroute to bring destroyed? If I am wrong please tell me how that could be possible. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/649 "2014-01-12T02:30:05Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The scoffers last year were scoffing at the President of the United States of America for being taken in, suckered, by the almighty Putin and his puppet Assad. They scoffed at the talk of a deal, the talk of a plan to sieze control and destroy Syria’s chemical weapon arsenal. They scoffed at that time because the scoffers knew so much about it they were enjoying a chance to scoff at the leaders of the civilized nations of the world including Obama, and scoff at the UNSC members, and to scoff at the OPCW, for posing such a rediculous idea that the OPCW could even enter a war zone to locate and inventory the CW to prepare it for destruction or removal. Another goal assigned to OPCW was to destroy all Syria’s CW production facilities. That goal has been accomplished safely in a war zone. The scoffers have been shown ever so clearly that they were absolutely wrong. But your claim was that people who scoffed at the weapons being _removed_, specifically, had been shown to be wrong. Not the weapons being secured, not production facilities being shut down - the weapons being removed. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > No one has been reported hurt that I am aware of and > after a week delay the first shipment of CW has been safely ever so safely amazingly safely out of the Syrian war zone. This wasn’t the case at the time you claimed the scoffers had been shown to be wrong, though. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The scoffers I’m addressing were saying last fall that the OPCW workers would be shot by snipers just going in. > > The scoffers are proven so wrong its not even arguable at this point. Again, that’s entirely separate from your original claim. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/650 "2014-01-12T02:32:03Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > That is so simple to understand I don’t know why an intelligent person like H.Action thinks you were vague… Because the post you quoted covered a lot of bases: weapons might get handed over, they might not, etc. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > …and why H.Action thinks you are still right to scoff at this. I don’t recall writing that. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/651 "2014-01-12T04:33:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > But your claim was that people who scoffed at the weapons being _removed_, specifically, had been shown to be wrong. Not the weapons being secured, not production facilities being shut down - the weapons being removed. No you are wrong. Last Fall when Shodan, Magiver, Werekoala etc were ‘scoffing’ at the Syria deal there was no understanding at that time that the CW was to be physically ‘removed’ from Syria as we later found out. The scoffing was directed at the idea that inspectors could enter a war zone and locate them and destroy them either on site or removed from the situation. When I said ‘removed’ you jump to the conclusion that I meant physically removed from Syria. I meant as is consistent with our first impression about the deal that the CW would be removed as a threat to civilians. Removed is the proper way to describe what the inspectors have already accomplished. Here is what I wrote (minor corrections in brackets) in full containing the full context of the point I was making: \*"So as and end in itself the CW threat and the masterful deal established to end it was always clear[ly] separate and apart from the civil war. It is not the case \*\*but If “if” the civil war completely **or significantly obstructed the means to the** [COLOR=“Red”] elimination \*_of CW [/COLOR]from the war zone then there would be an inseparable link of the civil war to the CW threat as a matter of US policy. But that is not the case. Many scoffed at the idea that the CW could be safely removed from an active war zone. They have been shown to be wrong too_ Note that I used the phrase ‘elimination from the war zone’ … First and that is how I meant 'removed from an active war zone. We know now that Assad’s forces had control of all the CW sites – in a War Zone — they just did not have full control of some roads between the sites and the port. To be consistent with understanding the ‘scoffing’ as the scoffing was in full blast - removing the chemicals from the active war zone did not necessary mean they had to be removed from Syria to be destroyed. They could be and most thought they would be destroyed in place. The inspectors have been to all the sites… Safely in and Safely out. Apparently the OPCW has decided that it would be ‘quicker’ and safer to remove the Chemicals from Syria. I am right no matter how you want to read what has been written either in snippet fashion or in full context. The intent of OPCW was always to ‘safely’ remove the CW from a war zone… But they have decided it is safer and quicker to do it by removing it from Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/652 "2014-01-12T05:39:24Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What do you believe L.Nemo? > > Has ‘nothing happened’ in getting Syria’s CW under international control, inventoried, safely transferred to a ship and enroute to bring destroyed? If I am wrong please tell me how that could be possible. I have repeatedly told you what I believe and explained why I believe it. I also believe you’re not interested in what anyone else has to say and are only here so you can post your own beliefs. But it’s the proper forum for witnessing so knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/653 "2014-01-12T07:23:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > At this point I am not sure you understand anything posted in this thread, your own posts included. > > Put it this way - this board is heavily slanted in favor of Obama. Yet of every single poster who has participated in this thread, not one agrees with you. Not one. Liberal, moderate, conservative, lunatic fringers - not one. > > Does that tell you anything at all? > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, but the thing is this board isn’t always slanted in favor of Obama for the “right” reasons. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/654 "2014-01-12T08:16:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have repeatedly told you what I believe and explained why I believe it. > > I also believe you’re not interested in what anyone else has to say and are only here so you can post your own beliefs. But it’s the proper forum for witnessing so knock yourself out. “I wrote a great deal in response to you. I provided a cite from VOA and others that the Assad regime has ‘zero’ control over the arsenal that it had total control over three months ago. But of all those points I provided in response to you, you picked this as your final stand. You cited one short sentence from all that I wrote, \*“It is progress that is going according to schedule but for this first shipment.” \* You have annoyingly decided to declare that I \*‘seem to feel … \*’ and you got that wrong by omitting two major points that I have been emphasizing: Part of your response was, _"You seem to feel that agreeing to destroy the weapons, and planning on how the weapons would be destroyed, and setting up a schedule for destroying the weapons were all significant steps. I feel they’re meaningless steps unless they’re followed by weapons actually being destroyed - which hasn’t happened. " - Little Nemo 01-03-2014 10:47 AM 003a1047_ So you are not doing well at guessing my ‘feelings’ I do not ‘feel’ that: - agreeing to destroy the weapons - planning on how the weapons would be destroyed - setting up a schedule for destroying the weapons are meaningful enough in any sense that those items alone or together would protect the opposition families from being gassed to death by the Assad regime. However you have not addressed what I do regard as the most significant and meaningful achievements made to date. The first is that - Assad has zero control over Chemical weapons. - Assad’s CW production capability has been destroyed They are meaningful in that it prevents Assad from using CW to kill civilians. So why do you keep insisting that a four day delay (it turned out to be seven) for the safety of those transporting the CW to the port city means the achievement that have come beforehand are not meaningful to you. Okay, Not, let me just ask you a simple question that I think cuts to the heart of the issue. As of January 4, 2014, what percentage of Syria’s chemical weapons arsenal has been destroyed? - Little Nemo 01-04-2014 04:43 PM 004p0443 This has been my response. Syria’s CW stockpile is 100 % entirely under the control of the OPCW. Syria cannot kill people with them. And what does the Pentagon say about when the Cargo Ship Cape Ray will start destroying Syria’s CW: -Ntfldbw “cite”\> But its mission to destroy 700 tons of Syria’s bulk chemical weapons can’t begin until Russian trucks can transport the weapons to the Syrian port of Latakia to the Norwegian and Danish tankers that will ferry them to the Cape Ray. That was supposed to be Dec. 31, so it’s late. Pentagon officials say they expect the ship to depart in the next two weeks. \<“cite” It is expected to depart in the next two weeks. So what is the timeline to destroy 700 Tons of Syria’s CW? -Ntfldbw “cite” \>Destroying the chemical weapons should take about 45 days, but another 45 have been built into the schedule to account for weather delays. \<“cite” It will be 45 days plus allowing 45 days for bad weather: Lets run some rough numbers. June is 182 days. Minus 16 days = 166 days to complete a 45 day project. I’d say the process is in pretty good shape. What do you think? - NotfooledbyW 01-04-2014 07:14 PM -004p0714 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/655 "2014-01-12T15:22:49Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > However you have not addressed what I do regard as the most significant and meaningful achievements made to date. The first is that > > - Assad has zero control over Chemical weapons. > - Assad’s CW production capability has been destroyed > > They are meaningful in that it prevents Assad from using CW to kill civilians. It’s naïve to suggest Assad can’t produce CW’s or has identified his entire stockpile. All we have is his word. He knows that the UK, France and the United States lack the political capital to interfere with his civil war. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Lets run some rough numbers. June is 182 days. Minus 16 days = 166 days to complete a 45 day project. I’d say the process is in pretty good shape. What do you think? - NotfooledbyW 01-04-2014 07:14 PM -004p0714 I think in 182 days Assad will have killed thousands of people unabated. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/656 "2014-01-12T19:20:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think in 182 days Assad will have killed thousands of people unabated. Magiver declares so many in the world naive. Aren’t we fortunate to have one of the few non-naive wise men on CW proliferation posting on this forum. Just what is Magiver’s plan to abate Assad’s killing with conventional weapons? It must be sending in the US ground troops perhaps half s million so as to stop the unabated killing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/657 "2014-01-12T21:27:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Magiver declares so many in the world naive. Aren’t we fortunate to have one of the few non-naive wise men on CW proliferation posting on this forum. > > Just what is Magiver’s plan to abate Assad’s killing with conventional weapons? It must be sending in the US ground troops perhaps half s million so as to stop the unabated killing. I couldn’t have been more clear. It’s not our problem. We have no horse in this race. Neither side is our friend. You’re the one who thinks removing Assad’s CW’s solves anything beyond making Obama look less foolish. Which seems to be the reason you started the thread in the first place. To make a rookie political mistake appear to be something else. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/658 "2014-01-12T23:21:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re the one who thinks removing Assad’s CW’s solves anything beyond making Obama look less foolish. Which seems to be the reason you started the thread in the first place. To make a rookie political mistake appear to be something else. What mistake? The chemicals are being destroyed at sea as we speak. How is getting that done a mistake? You do know that when all the CW are destroyed it completely dissipates the the need to be concerned about what kind if CW disaster could befall many innocent people if Assad does lose control of keeping that arsenal secure and some major quantity fell into the wrong hands. Obama is not like you, he must think about what is needed to protect all lives as best we can and that includes Americans who have business and or recreation to attend to in that general part of the world. It seems to me that ridding 1000!tons of CW from any civil war would be a no brainer. But I don’t live in your world that shrugs it off. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/659 "2014-01-12T23:36:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re the one who thinks removing Assad’s CW’s solves anything beyond making Obama look less foolish. Right. I can’t think of a single benefit to the US in removing CW’s from an unstable region where Al Qaeda is a major player. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/660 "2014-01-13T02:25:58Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What mistake? . drawing a red line he can’t back up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=34)