# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/701 "2014-02-03T13:44:11Z")
[There’s some good news today.](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/03/world/africa/libyas-cache-of-toxic-arms-all-destroyed.html) However, it is Libya, not Syria, that has been disarmed of chemical weapons. It’s a little difficult to get a sense of how much CW was disposed of after Qaddafi fell, but it seems to be around a dozen tons or so – in other words, one-eightieth the stockpile size of Syria. Plus the destruction was conducted in situ, and it still took 2 years and 4 months to complete since Qaddafi was killed. Note that I don’t characterize this accomplishment as “masterful,” it’s just a good thing. It also illustrates that these things aren’t easy. I think the White House Chief of Staff’s comments on the troubles with Syria’s stockpile fall well short of declaring “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” as some people here are ready to do. Mr McDonough said the Syria deal is "not falling apart, but we would like to see it proceed much more quickly than it is.” Which reminds me of the rule of thumb on diplomatic or PC speak: If someone says something isn’t funny, it probably is. And if someone says something is not falling apart, it just might be. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/702 "2014-02-03T18:01:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s a UN agreement of which Russia has veto power. Russia always has veto power at the UNSC. What Agreement did Putin get that the US would not interfere if Syria fails to meet its CW agreement? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/703 "2014-02-05T02:32:47Z")
US intelligence chief says that the CW deal last year strengthened Assad’s position. "“The prospects are right now that (Assad) is actually in a strengthened position than when we discussed this last year, by virtue of his agreement to remove the chemical weapons, as slow as that process has been,” said James Clapper, director of national intelligence. " > **[World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From...](https://www.nbcnews.com/world)** > > Get the latest news, updates, and video from around the globe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/704 "2014-02-05T02:34:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > US intelligence chief says that the CW deal last year strengthened Assad’s position. > > "“The prospects are right now that (Assad) is actually in a strengthened position than when we discussed this last year, by virtue of his agreement to remove the chemical weapons, as slow as that process has been,” said James Clapper, director of national intelligence. " > > [World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From Around The Globe | NBC News](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/02/04/22573386-chemical-weapons-deal-strengthened-assad-says-us-intel-chief) That’s no surprise. It’s exactly what some of us were saying all along. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/705 "2014-02-05T02:43:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s silly to think Putin cares about anything except keeping Assad in power. No. I think Putin is only concerned about keeping Putin in power. He’d sell out Assad in a second if that was to his advantage. But for now, acting as Assad’s protector serves Putin’s cause. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/706 "2014-02-05T02:51:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No. I think Putin is only concerned about keeping Putin in power. He’d sell out Assad in a second if that was to his advantage. But for now, acting as Assad’s protector serves Putin’s cause. Putin isn’t going anywhere. Assad on the other hand, needs his support. Or put another way, Putin needs “someone” in Syria to do his bidding. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/707 "2014-02-05T04:02:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s no surprise. It’s exactly what some of us were saying all along. It is however important to note, that you are on record stating that you are relieved that the \*‘method of CW elimination’ _Putin’s Diplomatic Efforts_ \* that _‘has tilted the balance heavily towards Assad, thus “resolving” the war in his favor.’_ > [@](#): > > “cite”\> Originally Posted by NotfooledbyW (Post 16681564) I am gloating over the great news last week that diplomacy is winning out over military action with regard to Syria. If you think that is partisan I cannot disagree with you more. \<“cite” > > (John Mace 09-19-2013 10:38 PM ) _I share your relief that Putin’s diplomatic efforts seem to be winning out over Obama’s militaristic ones, but it’s still very early in the process._ > [@](#): > > (John Mace 01-05-2014 04:18 P) “Resolving” is an interesting word. The elimination of CWs, in and of itself, does very little if anything to “resolve” the civil war since they played a minuscule role in said war. Now, the\*\* method of their elimination,\*\* in which we have had to ally ourselves with Putin and, by extension, Assad in order to eliminate them, has tilted the balance heavily towards Assad, thus “resolving” the war in his favor. I don’t think anyone can credibly deny that Assad is much more entrenched in power than he was last summer. If you are not supportive of the US attempting to resolve the Syrian civil war by arming and aiding rebels more and weakening the Assad regime by direct US military action, does that mean you are you saying that it is best that the Syrian Civil war gets resolved by strengthening Assad in part by removing and destroying his CW arsenal? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/708 "2014-02-05T04:39:54Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > US intelligence chief says that the CW deal last year strengthened Assad’s position. > > "“The prospects are right now that (Assad) is actually in a strengthened position than when we discussed this last year, by virtue of his agreement to remove the chemical weapons, as slow as that process has been,” said James Clapper, director of national intelligence. " > > [World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From Around The Globe | NBC News](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/02/04/22573386-chemical-weapons-deal-strengthened-assad-says-us-intel-chief) Clapper did not say why the CW deal boosted Assad’s position. From the link: _“Clapper, testifying before a U.S. House of Representatives intelligence committee hearing, did not specify why last September’s agreement on chemical arms had boosted Assad’s position.”_ Do you believe that the US should not have negotiated the deal? But it appears the CW are going to move: > [@](#): > > “Literally yesterday the Syrians announced that the removal of a large shipment of chemical substances is planned in February. They are ready to complete this process by March 1,” said Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov, according to the state-run Russian news agency RIA. Read more: [Russia says Syria to ship chemical arms as civilians flee bombs | The Star](http://www.thestar.com.my/News/World/2014/02/05/Russia-says-Syria-to-remove-chemical-weapons-this-month/) What if Clapper is actually telling the truth. Interesting angle from Rand’s Dad: > [@](#): > > February 2, 2014 by Gennady Stolyarov II The Continuing Al-Qaeda Threat – Article by Ron Paul > > The New Renaissance Hat Ron Paul February 2, 2014 > > Appearing last week before the Senate Intelligence Committee, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper testified that he could not say the threat from al-Qaeda is any less today than it was ten years ago. It was a shocking admission. Does he mean that the trillions of dollars spent fighting the war on terrorism have resulted in no gains? That those who urged us to give up some of our liberties to gain security have, as Benjamin Franklin warned, lost both? > > There may be reasons Director Clapper would want us to believe that the threat from al-Qaeda is as strong as ever. An entire industry has arisen from the government’s war on terror, and for both the government sector and the security-industrial complex the terrorist threat is big business. Economic pressure has thus far not affected the military or intelligence sectors – despite false claims that the sequestration cut military spending. However, emphasizing continued high threat levels without being able to openly explain them due to secrecy requirements is one way to keep the security budget untouched. > > Also, emphasizing the continued high threat level from terrorists overseas is a good way to frighten citizens away from their increasing outrage over reports of massive domestic spying by the NSA. Unfortunately Americans may still be more willing to give up their liberties if they are told that the threats to their security remain as high as ever. > > \*\*What if Clapper is telling us the truth, however? \*\*What would this revelation mean if that is the case? > > For one, it means that we have gotten very little for the tremendous amount of spending on the war on terrorism and the lives lost. We are told that the military and intelligence community can protect us if they are given the tools they need, but it appears they have not done a very good job by their own admission. And this: > [@](#): > > Are there more al-Qaeda groups out there because our policies keep creating new ones? > > On that point, Clapper said to the Senate that in Syria the al-Qaeda affiliated al-Nusra Front “does have aspirations for attacks on the homeland.” It is all the more disturbing, then, to have also read last week that Congress voted in secret to resume sending weapons to the Syrian rebels, who are dominated by al-Qaeda-affiliated groups. [http://www.rationalargumentator.com/index/blog/tag/syria/](http://www.rationalargumentator.com/index/blog/tag/syria/) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/709 "2014-02-05T05:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > “Cite” \>Originally Posted by NotfooledbyW (Post 17065825) The Russians have invested a lot already to get the transport phase done. \<“Cite” > (-Magiver 02-01-2014 11:08 AM) no they haven’t. Do you have a factual basis for denying all the investments the Russians have made? They have airlifted trucks into Syria ready to transport the CW ‘safely’ to the port. It does cost something to airlift trucks doesn’t it. Their Navy is providing security at the port. Did you fact check your bold declaration with one source or more? That was quite bold. You sound so sure of yourself. And I’m sure you got excited about the second delay of transferring the CW to the Port. But the Russian lorries are there and ready to move. A Russian Deputy Foreign Minister says the ‘completion of the process’ will be by March 1. So that is about three weeks later than originally planned. But there was a lot of float in the original schedule which was to be wrapped up by July… It is becoming apparent that the chemicals to be destroyed after March 1 will be those that are not as dangerous as the first batch. You see that ‘wrap up’ will be just before the Mid Term Elections here in the US and Obama mentioned in the State of the Union that it was the ‘threat of force’ that is getting those CW moved ever so diplomatically. Do you see how the threat of force works well if you recognize when there is potential to achieve its goal you back off using the force that was threatened to be used. Perhaps Obama threatened Putin and Assad again. Maybe he didn’t. But the chemicals will soon be loaded on the Russian trucks and in a 'convoy over land and delivered to the ships at sea. Using the threat of force to achieve a major diplomatic achievement getting rid of Syria’s CW… to go with getting rid of the small amounts of CW in Syria. > [@](#): > > “Literally yesterday the Syrians announced that the removal of a large shipment of chemical substances is planned in February. They are ready to complete this process by March 1,” said Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov, according to the state-run Russian news agency RIA. > **[Russia says Syria to ship chemical arms as civilians flee bombs](https://www.thestar.com.my/News/World/2014/02/05/Russia-says-Syria-to-remove-chemical-weapons-this-month/)** > > MOSCOW/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Russia said its ally Syria would soon ship more chemical weapons abroad for destruction after being accused of dragging its feet, while activists said civilians in Aleppo were fleeing deadly barrel bomb raids by President... ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/710 "2014-02-05T05:37:37Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > It is however important to note, that you are on record stating that you are relieved that the \*‘method of CW elimination’ _Putin’s Diplomatic Efforts_ \* that _‘has tilted the balance heavily towards Assad, thus “resolving” the war in his favor.’_ So you’re finally seeing the light that the “masterful” move was Putin’s, not Obama’s. I’m “relieved” that you have finally seen the light, and take pride in having helped you arrive at your new position. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/711 "2014-02-05T15:15:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So you’re finally seeing the light that the “masterful” move was Putin’s, not Obama’s. I’m “relieved” that you have finally seen the light, and take pride in having helped you arrive at your new position. Nope you are in error. I have not chsnged my position one iota. The elimination of CW was achieved because of Obama’s initiative and Putin acquiesced under the threat of force. The CW issue was pursued as a separate national security matter apart from resolving the civil war. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/712 "2014-02-05T15:52:01Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Nope you are in error. I have not chsnged my position one iota. The elimination of CW was achieved because of Obama’s initiative and Putin acquiesced under the threat of force. The CW issue was pursued as a separate national security matter apart from resolving the civil war. Emphasis added. Exactly. Putin plays Obama like a fiddle to separate the two issues and allow Assad to consolidate power. Masterful! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/713 "2014-02-05T16:40:48Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Nope you are in error. I have not chsnged my position one iota. The elimination of CW was achieved because of Obama’s initiative and Putin acquiesced under the threat of force. The CW issue was pursued as a separate national security matter apart from resolving the civil war. “For a limited time you can give some of your CW and continue with your genocide, sure that we aren’t going to do a thing to stop you, courtesy of Barack’s Red Line. Call now, operator are waiting”. Assad in power? check Putin gets to continue using his puppet? check Genocide continues? check Symbolic gesture of (some) CW? check If one considers CWs to be, in themselves, more important than an ongoing genocide, which will be unaffected by giving away (some/most/all) CWs, THEN it’s Obama’s Metternicht moment. It’s lke saying “they’re now using plug-in hybrids to send political prisoners to their slave-labour camps, less pollution yey!!!”. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/714 "2014-02-05T21:13:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Emphasis added. > > Exactly. Putin plays Obama like a fiddle to separate the two issues and allow Assad to consolidate power. Masterful! Assad retaining control of Syria is not a security threat to the US. CW’s in an unstable region with an AQ presence is most definitely a security threat to the US. Half a loaf is better than none, and from a US security POV, this is better than half, with zero risk to US troops. I realize that if you guys were in charge, you’d hold out for complete peace and harmony throughout the entire Middle East, but Obama lives in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/715 "2014-02-05T23:11:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Emphasis added. > > Exactly. Putin plays Obama like a fiddle to separate the two issues and allow Assad to consolidate power. Masterful! You’d have to point to a point in US policy when the two issues were not separate for you to be correct. And the truth will never let you be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/716 "2014-02-05T23:49:56Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Assad retaining control of Syria is not a security threat to the US. CW’s in an unstable region with an AQ presence is most definitely a security threat to the US. Personally, I believe the risk of AQ setting up some kind of safe haven from which to plot things like the underwear bomb plot is by far the most serious risk to the United States. The idea that AQ could obtain, store, move and use a significant quantity of CW doesn’t strike me as the most likely series of events. The CW agreement does nothing to address the safehaven concern, but it does make the second, somewhat far-fetched scenario even more far-fetched. That’s not really progress to yell from the rooftops. > [@](#): > > Half a loaf is better than none, and from a US security POV, this is better than half, with zero risk to US troops. I realize that if you guys were in charge, you’d hold out for complete peace and harmony throughout the entire Middle East, but Obama lives in the real world. The question I raised earlier in this thread was essentially whether this agreement to dispose of CW which takes some wind out of the sails of efforts to address the civil war is an effort that is half a loaf or just half-assed. There’s no shame in the agreement, but this is a relatively minor issue in a conflict that is quite serious, both in the toll of human lives and the consequences for the region. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/717 "2014-02-06T00:01:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Personally, I believe the risk of AQ setting up some kind of safe haven from which to plot things like the underwear bomb plot is by far the most serious risk to the United States. The idea that AQ could obtain, store, move and use a significant quantity of CW doesn’t strike me as the most likely series of events. The CW agreement does nothing to address the safehaven concern, but it does make the second, somewhat far-fetched scenario even more far-fetched. That’s not really progress to yell from the rooftops. > > The question I raised earlier in this thread was essentially whether this agreement to dispose of CW which takes some wind out of the sails of efforts to address the civil war is an effort that is half a loaf or just half-assed. There’s no shame in the agreement, but this is a relatively minor issue in a conflict that is quite serious, both in the toll of human lives and the consequences for the region. You know, I came in here to post pretty much the same thing, except I’d add: I’m sure the Syrians are just thrilled to be pawns in this effort of the US to exert its will in another country because it feels there is some small threat to us. The rebels had half a chance before, but this move consolidated Assad’s hold on power. Meanwhile, the slaughter continues, and the latests reports speak of the torture of children as young as 10 years old. If we’re not going to help them, we should stay the fuck out and not make ourselves an implicit partner of Assad’s. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/718 "2014-02-06T02:56:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Personally, I believe the risk of AQ setting up some kind of safe haven from which to plot things like the underwear bomb plot is by far the most serious risk to the United States. The idea that AQ could obtain, store, move and use a significant quantity of CW doesn’t strike me as the most likely series of events. The CW agreement does nothing to address the safehaven concern, but it does make the second, somewhat far-fetched scenario even more far-fetched. That’s not really progress to yell from the rooftops. Seems like a cave in the hills is more than adequate for an underwear bomb plot, and I find your “safe haven” scenario more far-fetched than CWs being stolen, but I could easily be wrong. I do agree that IF it happened, it would be a serious threat to the US. Which is why Obama, or Hillary, any other President, would make it an unsafe haven, in the IMO unlikely event you are right. Probably not troops, if it’s a Dem, but plenty of drones and cruise missiles. Maybe even troops, if Ted Cruz is Pres. Either way, it won’t be a serious threat for long. The CWs are a threat NOW. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/719 "2014-02-06T04:06:11Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Seems like a cave in the hills is more than adequate for an underwear bomb plot, and I find your “safe haven” scenario more far-fetched than CWs being stolen, but I could easily be wrong. I do agree that IF it happened, it would be a serious threat to the US. Which hills are you referring to? > [@](#): > > Which is why Obama, or Hillary, any other President, would make it an unsafe haven, in the IMO unlikely event you are right. Probably not troops, if it’s a Dem, but plenty of drones and cruise missiles. This debate was settled in September: Obama suggested missile strikes and he got spanked in public opinion. [/quote] The CWs are a threat NOW. [/QUOTE] How? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/720 "2014-02-06T08:24:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The idea that AQ could obtain, store, move and use a significant quantity of CW doesn’t strike me as the most likely series of events. The CW agreement does nothing to address the safehaven concern, but it does make the second, somewhat far-fetched scenario even more far-fetched. That’s not really progress to yell from the rooftops. What agreement in the world can or would address the “safe haven concern”? Think about it. The CW deal is backed by international law negotiated in political reality between two opposing sides of permanent members seated on the UN Security Council. I know of no consortium of freedom loving nations + China that have come together to find a means to negotiate diplomatically with al Qaeada or any other non-nation-state terrorist organization’s leadership that would diplomatically put aside the safe-haven threat of which you place your priority of concern. The only negotiating with terrorists such as those gaining safe haven is military and CT efforts by our intelligence and other intel agencies from around the world is called the ‘war on terror’ and Obama is authorized since 2001 to take whatever action necessary to eliminate any threats arising from a safe haven being developed in Syria as a result of the civil war there. And he will do that from what I’ve seen to date. And another significant argument by experts in this arena say that the removal of CW from Assad’s command and control diplomatically, reduces the leverage of Assad’s negotiating position for justification for remaining in power in general. That is because if the Assad regime were weakened to a point (by US air assault alone) then the problem arises as to what happens to command and control of the remanants of the Syrian Army which is fully responsible for safekeeping of over a thousand tons of deadly chemical weapons in the midst of a war zone being infested with al Qaeda and other terrorists by the day. Last ditch use for revenge by the retreating Syrian army is also a potentially deadly scenario for innocent victims of this civil war and the rebels. Considering these realities and critical facitirs I am confident that you and Mace are wrong and your view is not very relavent to the broader analysis of what must be done about Syria regarding national security… And then just to be sure there is this: Also very significant other’s, invluding our biggest biggest ally in the region, would dismiss your view as do I: > [@](#): > > Associated Press By IAN DEITCH Jan 27, 2013 2:24 PM > JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel could launch a pre-emptive strike to stop Syria’s chemical weapons from reaching Lebanon’s Hezbollah or al-Qaida inspired groups, officials said Sunday. > > The warning came as the military moved a rocket defense system to a main northern city, and Israel’s premier warned of dangers from both Syria and Iran. > > Israel has long expressed concerns that Syrian President Bashar Assad, clinging to power during a 22-month civil war, could lose control over his chemical weapons. > > Vice Prime Minister Silvan Shalom said Sunday that Israel’s top security officials held a special meeting last week to discuss Syria’s chemical weapons arsenal. The fact of the meeting, held the morning after a national election, had not been made public before. > > Shalom told the Army Radio station that the transfer of weapons to violent groups, particularly the Iranian-backed Lebanese Hezbollah, would be a game changer. Read More: [http://news.yahoo.com/israel-warns-attack-syrian-chemical-weapons-181427470.html;\_ylt=A0LEV1akO\_NS4BgAt2Jx.9w4;\_ylu=X3oDMTEzNTlvZ3U3BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDOQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVVM5Ml8x](http://news.yahoo.com/israel-warns-attack-syrian-chemical-weapons-181427470.html;_ylt=A0LEV1akO_NS4BgAt2Jx.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTEzNTlvZ3U3BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDOQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA01PVVM5Ml8x) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=37)