# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/761 "2014-02-09T02:09:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > She said they were not deliberately delaying. Hagel said, in effect, that if they weren’t deliberately delaying, then they were probably incompetent. And by “incompetent”, I’m sure he meant “masterful”, by your logic. Where’s the cite: Hagel’s exact words would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/762 "2014-02-09T03:52:19Z")
The cite I gave quoted his exact words. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/763 "2014-02-09T03:57:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The cite I gave quoted his exact words. where’s the link to it? She said they were not deliberately delaying. Hagel said, **in effect** , that if they weren’t deliberately delaying, then they were probably incompetent. And by “incompetent”, I’m sure he meant “masterful”, by your logic. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/764 "2014-02-09T04:43:32Z")
Wrong Thread… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/765 "2014-02-09T17:42:46Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > where’s the link to it? Dude, read my post. The link is there, the cite is there and the exact quote is there. IT’S ALL THERE. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/766 "2014-02-09T19:45:39Z")
But it’s not the exact quote itself. Ha ha - you can’t come with a single fact to refute me. I win! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/767 "2014-02-09T20:46:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hey, you said “masterfully”, which was your opinion, and I’m just quoting the facts as reported in the news. > > But maybe you argued that “masterfully” can also be defined as “foot dragging”: > > [US says Syria ‘dragging its feet’ on chemical weapons](http://news.yahoo.com/us-concerned-over-syria-chemical-weapons-delay-hagel-151530022.html;_ylt=A0SO8086Y_RSe1QAmpZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzMTBmNWZ2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDMyN18x) > > It would appear that Obama’s SecDef disagrees with you. But I’m probably wrong. Surely “masterfully” can easily be defined as “incompetence” in **NFBW** -speak. Or are you going to tell us that “the process” is different from “the process itself”? So J.Mace thinks that asking “if” means that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/768 "2014-02-09T21:40:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > She said they were not deliberately delaying. Hagel said, in effect, that if they weren’t deliberately delaying, then they were probably incompetent. And by “incompetent”, I’m sure he meant “masterful”, by your logic. because we all know how difficult it is to load a vehicle. might take an entire hour with union breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/769 "2014-02-09T22:02:33Z")
Maybe the Russians sent trucks built to SAE specs and the forklifts are metric. Or the chemical drums have multiple “up” decals pointed in the opposite direction and they’re confused. Or the door to the warehouse is locked and they lost the key and all the locksmiths are on vacation. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/770 "2014-02-09T22:31:26Z")
More likely all the scoffers will be laughed at last. Then this will be called a zombie thread and nary a scoffer will return. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/771 "2014-02-09T23:51:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So J.Mace thinks that asking “if” means that it is. Hagel wasn’t “asking if”. He was making an observation. If you can parse his observation as meaning “masterful”, let’s see it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you attempted to do that. If not, then you cannot deny that you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/772 "2014-02-09T23:54:54Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > More likely all the scoffers will be laughed at last. Then this will be called a zombie thread and nary a scoffer will return. if the civilians who will continue to die in the future manage to rise from the dead that may occur. But there are quite a few people who don’t routinely buy bridges from 3rd world despots. If Assad wants to have CW’s, then CW’s he’ll have and there isn’t a damn thing Obama can do about it. One of the signs that he’s not talking it seriously is that it only takes a few minutes to load a truck. It’s now been months. I scoff in your general direction. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/773 "2014-02-10T00:33:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hagel wasn’t “asking if”. He was making an observation. If you can parse his observation as meaning “masterful”, let’s see it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you attempted to do that. If not, then you cannot deny that you are wrong. Hagen did not ask if the inspectors were incompetent. He was wondering if Syria might be incompetent. Any way you look at it you lose. I’m also glad you and Magiver are together on this. That ought to tell you something about how wrong you are. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/774 "2014-02-10T00:38:27Z")
As noted, you have an uncanny ability to unite people who rarely, if ever, agree with each other. But I have presented nothing but facts as for how the masterful Secretary of Defense disagrees with your opinionated opinions. You cannot deny that this has now been proven in reverse accord to the manifold posting you have posted on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/775 "2014-02-10T00:40:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > if the civilians who will continue to die in the future manage to rise from the dead that may occur. But there are quite a few people who don’t routinely buy bridges from 3rd world despots. If Assad wants to have CW’s, then CW’s he’ll have and there isn’t a damn thing Obama can do about it. One of the signs that he’s not talking it seriously is that it only takes a few minutes to load a truck. It’s now been months. > > I scoff in your general direction. Are you going to explain how Obama is responsible for civilians that die. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/776 "2014-02-10T00:44:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As noted, you have an uncanny ability to unite people who rarely, if ever, agree with each other. > > But I have presented nothing but facts as for how the masterful Secretary of Defense disagrees with your opinionated opinions. You cannot deny that this has now been proven in reverse accord to the manifold posting you have posted on this subject. Post what I’ve written and the post what Hagel ever said that disagrees with what I wrote. You can’t. That would be dealing with facts. You can’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/777 "2014-02-10T00:50:25Z")
Mace & Magiver, would either of you support Obama giving heavy weapons to trustworthy Assad opposition militias? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/778 "2014-02-10T00:57:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Post what I’ve written and the post what Hagel ever said that disagrees with what I wrote. You can’t. That would be dealing with facts. You can’t do it. Already done, and I’m not doing it again. You have this habit of thinking that just because you disagree with what was posted that it wasn’t actually posted\*. People prove you wrong every day, and all you do is ask them to repost what was already posted. Not going to do it. As I’ve noted before, I’m not debating with you, so I don’t care what you think. People reading at home can come to their own conclusions. \*Or if you change your mind about something YOU posted that somehow your original post never existed, even though we can all read it in plain text in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/779 "2014-02-10T02:14:36Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Are you going to explain how Obama is responsible for civilians that die. You need to ask him: “We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” So it’s not a hard dot to connect. Obama is spending hard earned tax dollars to do this as well as arming rebels because: A: Chemical weapons are bad for the ozone B: Chemical weapons were used to kill people ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/780 "2014-02-10T02:44:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You need to ask him: “We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” > > So it’s not a hard dot to connect. Obama is spending hard earned tax dollars to do this as well as arming rebels because: > > A: Chemical weapons are bad for the ozone > B: Chemical weapons were used to kill people Whatever that means? When are you going to tell us why you think Obama is responsible for Syrian civilians being killed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=40)