# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/781 "2014-02-10T02:54:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Already done, and I’m not doing it again. You have this habit of thinking that just because you disagree with what was posted that it wasn’t actually posted\*. People prove you wrong every day, and all you do is ask them to repost what was already posted. > > Not going to do it. As I’ve noted before, I’m not debating with you, so I don’t care what you think. People reading at home can come to their own conclusions. > > \*Or if you change your mind about something YOU posted that somehow your original post never existed, even though we can all read it in plain text in the thread. Put what I wrote next to what Hagel wrote in disagreement. You can’t do it. Hence the dodge. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/782 "2014-02-10T02:58:25Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Whatever that means? When are you going to tell us why you think Obama is responsible for Syrian civilians being killed? Because he took it upon himself to do intervene in the use of weapons against the civilians of Syria and has gone on to arm them. He has made it his responsibility. The intend is his. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/783 "2014-02-10T03:50:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Put what I wrote next to what Hagel wrote in disagreement. You can’t do it. Hence the dodge. What part of “already done” do you not understand? You asked me to give a cite, when it was already given. You asked me to give a link, when it was already given. You asked me to quote the exact words, when they were already quoted. Now you’re asking for a comparison that was already given. I can’t help you if you can’t read my posts. Maybe you should spend more time reading and less time posting. More time listening and less time preaching. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/784 "2014-02-10T04:54:50Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Mace & Magiver, would either of you support Obama giving heavy weapons to trustworthy Assad opposition militias? Oh yes, absolutely. It worked out so well the last time we did it in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Bin Laden was gracious enough to send us a thank you note by air mail. I can’t speak for John but I’ve been pretty clear about my position. We have no horse in this race. Obama drove off the reservation with his red line comment and had to peddle it back with a “It’s not my red line” correction. It was an amateur mistake. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/785 "2014-02-10T12:03:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What part of “already done” do you not understand? You asked me to give a cite, when it was already given. You asked me to give a link, when it was already given. You asked me to quote the exact words, when they were already quoted. Now you’re asking for a comparison that was already given. > > I can’t help you if you can’t read my posts. Maybe you should spend more time reading and less time posting. More time listening and less time preaching. A comparison has not been given. That is currently your error. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/786 "2014-02-10T12:06:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh yes, absolutely. It worked out so well the last time we did it in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Bin Laden was gracious enough to send us a thank you note by air mail. > > I can’t speak for John but I’ve been pretty clear about my position. We have no horse in this race. Obama drove off the reservation with his red line comment and had to peddle it back with a “It’s not my red line” correction. It was an amateur mistake. Why is Obama responsible for the dead Syrians then. On your other Anti-Obama snorts - the innocent Syrian people getting killed are the horse in the race. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/787 "2014-02-10T12:26:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because he took it upon himself to do intervene in the use of weapons against the civilians of Syria and has gone on to arm them. He has made it his responsibility. The intend is his. What do you mean exactly when you say ‘Intervene in the use of weapons against the civilians of Syria’? I ask you that because all facts and reality are showing that Obsma’s masterful intervention on the CW issue has successfully prevented the mass killing of Syrian civilians with chemical weapons by the Assad regime or by anyone else in the region - including al Qaeda. It is easier to have a discussion when major issues can be kept in focus of the facts and reality. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/788 "2014-02-10T14:56:38Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > It is easier to have a discussion when major issues can be kept in focus of the facts and reality. Which is why it is pretty much impossible to have a discussion with you, save in the proper venue. [Like this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17091403#post17091403). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/789 "2014-02-10T16:58:16Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What do you mean exactly when you say ‘Intervene in the use of weapons against the civilians of Syria’? I ask you that because all facts and reality are showing that Obsma’s masterful intervention on the CW issue has successfully prevented the mass killing of Syrian civilians with chemical weapons by the Assad regime or by anyone else in the region - including al Qaeda. > > It is easier to have a discussion when major issues can be kept in focus of the facts and reality. It doesn’t stop the killing of civilians so there’s nothing masterful about any of it. And the loading of trucks is measured in minutes, not months. Your belief that anybody will be saved by this is framed in a belief Assad will give up CW’s. Obama had no resume coming into office and it shows. He never left campaign mode where politicians promise all kinds of crap and this is the result. He signed on to a toothless UN agreement and threw tax money at his fopaux. He never had the support needed to intervene in Syria and made himself foolish asking for it after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/790 "2014-02-11T18:17:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which is why it is pretty much impossible to have a discussion with you, save in the proper venue. > > [Like this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17091403#post17091403). > > Regards, > Shodan Are you saying that Syrians have actually been killed by CW since Obama intervened and is having CW removed? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/791 "2014-02-11T18:44:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It doesn’t stop the killing of civilians so there’s nothing masterful about any of it. When was the last time that Syrian civilians were killed by chemical weapons as defined under the CWC? Was it before or after Obama threatened to launch punitive US air strikes against Assad’s regime? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/792 "2014-02-11T18:50:57Z")
Safely I might add: > [@](#): > > Third shipment of chemical weapon material leave Syria > BEIRUT | Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:19am EST > > BEIRUT, Feb 10 (Reuters) - A third shipment of chemical weapons materials left Syria on Monday, and some other chemical substances have been destroyed inside the country, the joint mission of the United Nations and the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons said. > > It did not detail the quantity of material shipped out or destroyed but called on Syrian authorities to “expedite systematic, predictable and high-volume movements to complete the safe removal of chemical materials”. > > Syria failed to meet an OPCW target of Feb. 5 to move its declared chemical substances and precursors out of the country. But the UN-OPCW mission head said last week she did not believe the government was intentionally delaying the process. (Reporting by Dominic Evans; Editing by Hugh Lawson) was intentionally delaying the process. (Reporting by Dominic Evans; Editing by Hugh Lawson) [http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL5N0LF2DU20140210?irpc=932](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL5N0LF2DU20140210?irpc=932) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/793 "2014-02-11T23:44:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Was it all part of Obama’s plan to have nearly two-thirds of the American public oppose air strikes in Syria? If massive public opposition to his threats was not part of his plan, then the plan cannot be called masterful. That’s the beauty of it… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/794 "2014-02-12T02:22:27Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > When was the last time that Syrian civilians were killed by chemical weapons as defined under the CWC? Was it before or after Obama threatened to launch punitive US air strikes against Assad’s regime? According to Obama, after. Remember the “it wasn’t my redline” speech? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/795 "2014-02-12T02:30:12Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Safely I might add: > > [Third shipment of chemical weapon material leave Syria | Reuters](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL5N0LF2DU20140210?irpc=932) I like the part where they didn’t detail the quantity removed. Could have been a pint in the glove compartment for all we know. Given how desperate Obama is to show anything positive happening it would have been shouted from the highest mountain if it was anything significant. And the part where they said the Syrian government wasn’t intentionally delaying the process is downright funny. Really, can’t be bothered to load a truck because… Why? That’s some crack investigation team we’ve got over there. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/796 "2014-02-12T19:15:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > According to Obama, after. Remember the “it wasn’t my redline” speech? Obama was right to say the international community drew that red-line . He just threatened to judiciously punish Syria for crossing it. > [@](#): > > “I’ve said throughout my presidency that I always reserve the right to exercise military action on behalf of America’s national security interests,” he said. “But that has to be deployed wisely. And I think that what we saw with respect to the chemical weapons situation was an example of the judicious, wise use of possible military action.” Among Syrian Exiles, Certainty, And Fear, That Obama Has A Secret Plan Joshua Hersh02/12/14 08:21 AM ET > **[Among Syrian Exiles, Certainty, And Fear, That Obama Has A Secret Plan](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/syria-obama-plan_n_4772500)** > > Among Syrian Exiles, Certainty, And Fear, That Obama Has A Secret Plan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/797 "2014-02-15T12:29:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > US intelligence chief says that the CW deal last year strengthened Assad’s position. > > "“The prospects are right now that (Assad) is actually in a strengthened position than when we discussed this last year, by virtue of his agreement to remove the chemical weapons, as slow as that process has been,” said James Clapper, director of national intelligence. " > > [World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From Around The Globe | NBC News](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/02/04/22573386-chemical-weapons-deal-strengthened-assad-says-us-intel-chief) If Assad’s “position is stronger” as Clapper says “by virtue” of his agreenent to give up His CW aresenal, then reasonableness would allow us to presume that Assad is not deliberately delaying the removal of that arsenal. Deliberately delaying by Assad would undo what Clapper said is happening in his favor. Anyway there is more bad news for all the scoffers who hold a belief that the UNSC and iinternational law-abiding nations have suffered some kind of ruse by Putin and Assad having no intent to give the CW up as agreed in the masterful plan. Here it is: > [@](#): > > . Exclusive: Russia, NATO plan joint operation on Syria’s chemical weapons By Gabriela Baczynska and Adrian Croft MOSCOW/BRUSSELS | Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:38am EST > > By Gabriela Baczynska and Adrian Croft > > MOSCOW/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Russia and NATO are drawing up plans for a rare joint naval operation in the Mediterranean to protect the U.S. ship that will destroy Syria’s deadliest chemical weapons, officials and other sources said. Read more at [http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1D0Y120140214?irpc=932](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1D0Y120140214?irpc=932) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/798 "2014-02-15T12:33:46Z")
More bad news for the scoffers: > [@](#): > > Chemical weapons watchdog picks Ekokem, Veolia to destroy Syria’s stockpile > Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:36am GMT > > AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Ekokem AB of Finland and Veolia (VIE.PA) of France have won contracts to destroy part of Syria’s chemical weapons stockpile, the global watchdog OPCW said on Friday. > > The Hague-based Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, which is overseeing the destruction process, has earmarked up to 40 million euros ($55 million) for the commercial processing of 500 tonnes of industrial chemicals and millions of litres of toxic waste. ($1 = 0.7317 euros) [http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKBREA1D0D020140214?feedType=RSS&irpc=932](http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKBREA1D0D020140214?feedType=RSS&irpc=932) ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/799 "2014-02-15T13:16:04Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > More bad news for the scoffers: > > [Chemical weapons watchdog picks Ekokem, Veolia to destroy Syria's stockpile | Reuters](http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKBREA1D0D020140214?feedType=RSS&irpc=932) Call when they start, you know, destroying stuff. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/800 "2014-02-15T14:03:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Call when they start, you know, destroying stuff. Consider yourself ‘called’: Cite"\> The United Nations/OPCW mission said\*\* Syria \*\*shipped out a third consignment of chemical weapons materials on Monday **and has destroyed some more on its territory.** \<“Cite” [http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1D0Y120140214?irpc=932](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1D0Y120140214?irpc=932) Now, do you have a new excuse to scoff at Obama’s masterful ‘deal’ that is resulting in eliminating a threat in the region of chemical weapons sitting around in the middle of a civil war? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=41)