# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/881 "2014-04-03T14:22:14Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > All the mustard gas we are told has been transferred to the ship for destruction. Are you saying you have intelligence that lesves no doubt that Assad is hiding some mustard gas loaded weapons because they know that all evil dictators like Saddam Hussein love to punk CW authorities. And you know for a fact that the intlligence on CW in the hands of evil dictators is never wrong? post 860. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/882 "2014-04-03T15:31:49Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What is your version of what happened? And what do you have to back it up? That’s already been explained to you. > [@](#): > > Obama’s pressure was not working, since nobody but the French were going to go along with bombing. After Obama had failed, and was looking stupid and weak because of that failure, Putin came along and pulled his chestnuts out of the fire by proposing a deal under which Assad gets to buy lots of weapons from the Russians and kill lots of rebels, in return for which he will (allegedly) give up some or all of his chemical weapons. That’s the version, and it’s backed up by history and facts and other things not within your grasp. So when you say that the deal came about because Obama threatened strikes against Syria, it is a stupid, wrong assertion. So the deal is not at all “masterful” - Obama showed himself in these circumstances to be stupid and weak. It is even possible that his failure in this circumstance, as well as his sending funds to Egypt even after there was a military coup in that country, signaled to Putin that Putin would be able to get away with his annexation of the Crimea. So what this means to his legacy is that he failed badly in this. This should be obvious even to - well, people like you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/883 "2014-04-03T16:30:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is even possible that his failure in this circumstance, as well as his sending funds to Egypt even after there was a military coup in that country, signaled to Putin that Putin would be able to get away with his annexation of the Crimea. Oh, come on – Bush’s standing on the sidelines while Georgia was attacked was the authoritative message that the United States didn’t want to get into a war with Russia if it invaded its weak neighbors. If a criminal successfully robs a bank, and then later robs another bank, it is because he wasn’t caught the first time. It isn’t because some other policeman failed to give him a jaywalking ticket nine months before the second robbery. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/884 "2014-04-03T17:17:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s already been explained to you. > > That’s the version, and it’s backed up by history and facts and other things not within your grasp. > > So when you say that the deal came about because Obama threatened strikes against Syria, it is a stupid, wrong assertion. I will never be convinced that what David Ignatius asserts is wrong and stupid and what you asserts is right and intelligent. Putin changed his position ‘after’ the military strikes were proposed. You must assume that Putin changed his position on CW coincidently within an hour Kerry’s press conference where he said that the air strikes could be called off if Putin and Assad agreed to give up the CW arsenal in a very short period of time. There is no connection in Shodan’s mind although Lavrov responded to Kerry’s statement almost instantly and Lavrov said he’d take that deal. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/885 "2014-04-03T17:27:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, come on – Bush’s standing on the sidelines while Georgia was attacked was the authoritative message that the United States didn’t want to get into a war with Russia if it invaded its weak neighbors. > > If a criminal successfully robs a bank, and then later robs another bank, it is because he wasn’t caught the first time. It isn’t because some other policeman failed to give him a jaywalking ticket nine months before the second robbery. And its a damn good thing that Bush didnt escalate the Russian retaliatory raid into Georgia because Russia was reacting in compliance with international law because Georgia was found to have launched an attack that killed and wounded Russian troops stationed legally in South Ossetia. It’s called the inherent right to self defense that all nations possess. Russia invaded Georgia to retaliate for killing civilians and Russian soldiers and to destroy Georgia’s military assets so they wouldn’t try that shit cowardly move again. The West for the most part won’t recognize that reality. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/886 "2014-04-03T17:34:48Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > And its a damn good thing that Bush didnt escalate the Russian retaliatory raid into Georgia because\*\* Russia was reacting in compliance with international law\*\* because Georgia was found to have launched an attack that killed and wounded Russian troops stationed legally in South Ossetia. No. No it wasn’t. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > It’s called the inherent right to self defense that all nations possess. Since you seem so happy to talk about international law, surely you know that the right to self-defence has to be exercised with **proportionality**. In fact, that is one of the key principles of international law, which was established in [the mid-19th century](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_test). Russia’s reaction was justified but not proportional, and therefore illegal. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/887 "2014-04-04T02:12:59Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > My response is that you DO NOT KNOW that the “doom and gloomers” will end up being wrong, you just hope they are. > > Actually, I hope we are too - I’d actually be happy if things work out exactly the way you think they will - but you do not know that things will go that way. > > As to military strikes if things don’t go as planned - I’m not as positive as you are that they will, because I don’t believe the Administration wanted them in the first place, they were just forced into a corner where they had to talk tough because of prior “red line” comments. This is, of course, where you come in and parrot Obamas post-hoc “the world set the line, not me” rhetoric, which is false. I am not claiming to ‘know’ the future. But I do know that Magiver’s argument that OPCW \*\*can’t eliminate \*\*or destroy the CW arsenal in Syria is wrong. And this type of argument that UN or OPCW cannot disarm of regime of WMD/Chemical Weapons is the very same bogus argument that were heard from folks like Rumsfeld and Cheney in arguing for doing it in a very violent and destructive way instead. Four months ago these same scoffers were writing that it would be impossible to get Syria to give up anything but a token smidgeon of its CW arsenal. Reality is that all of it has been inventoried by the OPCW and half of it has been destroyed or moved outside of Syrian borders to be destroyed. All production facilities have been dismantled. The deadline for 1300 Tons of CW destruction is June 30th. It appears that that target is still on track to be met despite some early setbacks. Magiver has just claimed that proof that he is right was post 860. I am citing facts and verifiable trends and timelines and the OPCW’s reports. Magiver cites cliché. Assad has a bridge he wants to sell you. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/888 "2014-04-04T02:21:59Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > No. No it wasn’t. Why should I expect you to be credible on this issue when you deny what the EU Commiission Report stated: > [@](#): > > 2.) On the night of 7 to 8 August 2008, a sustained Georgian artillery attack struck the town of Tskhinvali. Other movements of the Georgian armed forces targeting Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas were under way, and soon the fighting involved Russian, South Ossetian and Abkhaz military units and armed elements. It did not take long, however, before the Georgian advance into South Ossetia was stopped. and again: > [@](#): > > 3.) The shelling of Tskhinvali by the Georgian armed forces during the night of 7 to 8 August 2008 marked the beginning of the large-scale armed conflict in Georgia, yet it was only the culminating point of a long period of increasing tensions, provocations and incidents. and this: > [@](#): > > 14.) Open hostilities began with a large-scale Georgian military operation against the town of Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas, launched in the night of 7 to 8 August 2008. > > Operations started with a massive Georgian artillery attack. At the very outset of the > operation the Commander of the Georgian contingent to the Joint Peacekeeping Forces (JPKF), Brigadier General Mamuka Kurashvili, stated that the operation was aimed at restoring the constitutional order in the territory of South Ossetia. Somewhat later the Georgian side refuted Mamuka Kurashvili’s statement as unauthorised and invoked the countering of an alleged Russian invasion as justification of the operation. "Open hostilities **began** with a large-scale Georgian military operation against the town of Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas, launched in the night of 7 to 8 August 2008. **Operations started with a massive Georgian artillery attack** It cannot be any clearer which side the EU Commissioned report found to have started it. How about this: > [@](#): > > 20.) At least as far as the initial phase of the conflict is concerned, an additional legal question is whether the Georgian use of force against Russian peacekeeping forces on > Georgian territory, i.e. in South Ossetia, might have been justified. Again the answer is in the negative. There was no ongoing armed attack by Russia before the start of the > Georgian operation. Georgian claims of a large-scale presence of Russian armed forces in South Ossetia prior to the Georgian offensive on 7/8 August could not be substantiated by > the Mission. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/889 "2014-04-04T02:31:40Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > No. No it wasn’t. > Since you seem so happy to talk about international law, surely you know that the right to self-defence has to be exercised with **proportionality**. In fact, that is one of the key principles of international law, which was established in [the mid-19th century](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_test). Russia’s reaction was justified but not proportional, and therefore illegal. That is opinion… not fact. This is fact from the EU report: > [@](#): > > It could also not be verified that Russia was on the verge of such a major attack, in spite of certain elements and equipment having been made readily available. There is also no evidence to support any claims that Russian peacekeeping units in South Ossetia were in flagrant breach of their obligations under relevant international agreements such as the Sochi Agreement and thus may have forfeited their international legal status. > > Consequently, the use of force by Georgia against Russian peacekeeping forces in Tskhinvali in the night of 7/8 August 2008 **was contrary to international law**. Judging proportionality of the Russian response is subjective. I contend that had a similar attack been launched against any EU nation or against the US the ‘retaliatory’ phase of the response would have been swift and brutal and all military installations and equipment would have been destroyed as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/890 "2014-04-04T06:57:09Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > That is opinion… not fact. No. The principle of proportionality created by the Carolina affair is one of the few **facts** that exist in international law. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Judging proportionality of the Russian response is subjective. Not it isn’t. Russia responded to localised attacks with a full-scale invasion: not proportional. The EU report which you so love agrees with this. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I contend that had a similar attack been launched against any EU nation or against the US the ‘retaliatory’ phase of the response would have been swift and brutal and all military installations and equipment would have been destroyed as much as possible. That’s irrelevant. If that were to happen (in my opinion it did in 2001), it should be judged on its own. The fact that other countries do illegal stuff does not allow everyone to break the law. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/891 "2014-04-05T18:34:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He looked like a buffoon both times. This is not Obama’s deal; it is Putin’s. Obama’s threats were empty and did not bring the deal about. Get that thru your head - Obama did not bring this deal about. > > Regards, > Shodan That’s where you are fooledbyPutin; apparently, you are not aware of how masterful Obama really is! And, his Secretary of State! ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/892 "2014-04-10T12:05:42Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Not it isn’t. Russia responded to localised attacks with a full-scale invasion: not proportional. The EU report which you so love agrees with this. No. That is false. The EU Report cites Georgia for responding to localized skirmishes from bohttp://www.opcw.org/special-sections/the-opcw-and-syria/th sides. Russia justifiably responded to Georgia’s massive mechanized assault and invasion into South Ossetia. Facts are facts. Georgia involved 8000 troops in the assault. That is not a localized attack. Updated news from OPCW: > [@](#): > > Syria Status Report > Priority 1 chemicals removed: 41.9 %\* > Priority 2 chemicals removed: 82.6 % > Total chemicals removed: 54.2 % > > Most recent consignments delivered to Latakia and removed from Syria: > Consignment #12 > 4 April 2014 > Consignment #11 > 20 March 2014 > Consignment #10: > 17 March 2014 > Consignment #9: > 14 March 2014 > Consignment # 8: > 9 March 2014 > Consignment # 7: > 5 March 2014 > > - Includes entire stock of sulfur mustard gas, the only unitary chemical warfare agent in Syria’s arsenal > Updated: 9 April 2014 > **[Syria and the OPCW](https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/featured-topics/opcw-and-syria)** ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/893 "2014-04-10T15:00:46Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Facts are facts. Cite? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/894 "2014-04-10T18:30:55Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am not claiming to ‘know’ the future. But I do know that Magiver’s argument that OPCW \*\*can’t eliminate \*\*or destroy the CW arsenal in Syria is wrong. And this type of argument that UN or OPCW cannot disarm of regime of WMD/Chemical Weapons is the very same bogus argument that were heard from folks like Rumsfeld and Cheney in arguing for doing it in a very violent and destructive way instead. > Four months ago these same scoffers were writing that it would be impossible to get Syria to give up anything but a token smidgeon of its CW arsenal. Reality is that all of it has been inventoried by the OPCW and half of it has been destroyed or moved outside of Syrian borders to be destroyed. All production facilities have been dismantled. > > The deadline for 1300 Tons of CW destruction is June 30th. It appears that that target is still on track to be met despite some early setbacks. > Magiver has just claimed that proof that he is right was post 860. I am citing facts and verifiable trends and timelines and the OPCW’s reports. Magiver cites cliché. Assad has a bridge he wants to sell you. You don’t get it. I’m citing you. Your belief in Assad’s word. I also cite your belief in Putin. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/895 "2014-04-11T17:47:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You don’t get it. I’m citing you. Your belief in Assad’s word. I also cite your belief in Putin. Your argument that OPCW can’t eliminate or destroy the CW arsenal in Syria is a highly flawed opinion. It is very close to the argument the US and UK used in 2003 to start a war. The truth back then had nothing to do with an evil dictator’s word. The truth was emerging from an established legal and peaceful inspection process. Your cite that I believe Assad’s word is based on what? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/896 "2014-04-11T18:04:01Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Your cite that I believe Assad’s word is based on what? Your demonstrated ability to believe anything, if it is silly enough. Anyway, reading in context, we see that you are not really asking for a cite. What you want is for someone to repost two or three pages of various posts, fuck up the coding, and then contradict yourself and declare victory. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/897 "2014-04-12T03:30:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your demonstrated ability to believe anything, if it is silly enough. > > Anyway, reading in context, we see that you are not really asking for a cite. What you want is for someone to repost two or three pages of various posts, fuck up the coding, and then contradict yourself and declare victory. No. You are in error. Magiver claimed that I believe Assad’s word on giving up his CW arsenal. That is not true. I believe the OPCW will verify that the all the CW will be removed and destroyed or destroyed in place. And that is a good thing to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/898 "2014-04-12T05:01:21Z")
Let’s all go over to the “Russia has annexed Crimea - what it means for masterful Russian President and Prime Minister’s legacy?” thread. Or maybe someone should start a “Russian peacekeepers repelled murderous Georgians a few years ago - what did this mean for masterful Russian President and Prime Minister’s legacy” thread. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/899 "2014-04-12T06:39:50Z")
On 04-12-2014 01:01 AM **CarnalK wrote:** > [@](#): > > Let’s all go over to the “Russia has annexed Crimea - what it means for masterful Russian President and Prime Minister’s legacy?” thread. Or maybe someone should start a “Russian peacekeepers repelled murderous Georgians a few years ago - what did this mean for masterful Russian President and Prime Minister’s legacy” thread What kind of argument is that? Why don’t you state whether you think OPCW is capable or not capable to destroy Syria’s CW stockpiles and facilities to produce them? Magiver thinks destroying CW in Syria is a ‘fools errand’. Do you agree with that? On 03-16-2014 at 02:59 AM **I wrote** : > [@](#): > > Even the brink of WWIII can’t stop Assad’s arsenal of chemical weapons from being destroyed 'SAFELY" in the middle of a civil war: > > > [@](#): > > > > Chemical weapons to be destroyed outside Syria could be gone by April 13: Russia’s RIA Reuters News | Mar 14, 2014 MOSCOW (Reuters) - Syria’s chemical weapons that should be destroyed outside the country could be removed by April 13, a Russian Foreign Ministry official said on Friday, adding there was no need to adjust the timeframe. > > > > “If there are no difficulties then in a month, on April 13, the removal will be practically finished,” Mikhail Ulyanov, head of the Foreign Ministry’s security and disarmament department, was quoted as saying by RIA news agency. > > Read More: [Audio - SRN News](http://townhall.com/news/politics-el...s-ria-n1808953) After that on 03-17-2014 at 07:23 AM **Magiver wrote** : > [@](#): > > bridges for sale. Get your very own bridge from Assad. Each comes with a letter of authenticity backed up by a guarantee from the Vladamir Putin payable with Crimean currency. So on 03-22-2014 at 10:34 AM \*\*I asked \*\*Magiver: > [@](#): > > Is resorting to the fiction of sarcasm intended to imply that the OPCW and UNSC are lying when the report nearly half the CW destroyed or removed by now? Does that qualify as a CT? Then on 03-23-2014 at 11:25 PM **Magiver explained** : > [@](#): > > No it’s sarcasm intended to imply anybody who believes Assad is a fool. There is virtually no way any monitoring group can verify the existence of anything in Syria as long as he’s in power. On 03-23-2014 at 11:48 PM **I wrote:** > [@](#): > > That sounds exactly the same as the argument that justified invading Iraq in 2003 because of the possibility of CW being hidden there from UN inspectors. I have never been fooled by that argument and I’m not fooled by it now with respect to Syria. 03-24-2014 08:15 AM \*\*Magiver explains \*\*that getting rid of CW is a ‘fools errand’: > [@](#): > > it’s not an argument for anything beyond the obvious. it’s a fools errand. Just to be sure on 04-02-2014 at 08:21 PM\*\* I asked\*\*: > [@](#): > > Are you saying that the OPCW inspectors are on a fool’s errand and that makes them all fools and you are not a fool? And we should believe you, why? On 04-03-2014 at 12:15 AM **Magiver wrote:** > [@](#): > > The inspectors did not, do not, and never will have unfettered access to Syria as long as Assad is in charge. Therefore your belief system is not in my opinion but in Assad’s. On 04-03-2014 at 02:55 AM \*\*I tried \*\*to show Magiver the fact that the OPCW has had plenty of ‘unfettered access’ to be destroying 1300 Tons of CW and that more than half of them have been destroyed or transferred: > [@](#): > > All the mustard gas we are told has been transferred to the ship for destruction. Are you saying you have intelligence that lesves no doubt that Assad is hiding some mustard gas loaded weapons because they know that all evil dictators like Saddam Hussein love to punk CW authorities. And you know for a fact that the intlligence on CW in the hands of evil dictators is never wrong? To which on 04-03-2014 at 10:22 AM \*\*Magiver referred \*\*me back to his fictional sarcastic post that Assad had a bridge for sale: > [@](#): > > post 860. So there you have it, CarnalK. Do you agree with Magiver on any of that\* ‘fools errand’ \*stuff which is so similar to the argument used to justify the US and UK invasion of Iraq. There the UN inspectors were being fooled by Saddam. its the same now with some here on Syria. It has to be to them that Assad is lying ‘selling them a bridge’ or fooling the courageous men and women going into a war zone to verify and remove the threat of CW from being used again on the people of Syria or falling into the hands of terrorist groups that have infested the civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/900 "2014-04-12T07:10:46Z")
The deal helps the president with a masterful legacy. Being one of the few US presidents that have managed to steer the US out of expensive and bloody foreign wars to the extreme detriment of the American people. And this despite numerous opportunities and massive pressure to send in the boys to the slaughter. He even managed to pull out of two existing wars he was saddled with. All in all, one of the best US presidents in more than a generation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=46)