# Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852 "2013-09-14T17:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/141 "2013-09-19T01:14:40Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I’d prefer Magiver post about Iraq on the Bush Library Thread but until > He does, how about you tell us that you agree or disagree with Magiver’s bold claim that 1441 authorized Bush to invade Iraq in March 2003. > > We cannot let that falsehood go unchallenged when we are addressing a new UN inspection regime to be regarding Syria. > > How about you? You with Magiver or reality on that one matter? Actually, I think a more interesting question for everyone here is what would your stance be if the situation was exactly the same but only that Bush was President. If this had happened on Bush’s watch and things unfolded the exact same way, would Bush be “masterful” or would you be screaming about Bush threatening military action without congressional approval and being played by Putin? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/142 "2013-09-19T01:41:39Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Actually, I think a more interesting question for everyone here is what would your stance be if the situation was exactly the same but only that Bush was President. If this had happened on Bush’s watch and things unfolded the exact same way, would Bush be “masterful” or would you be screaming about Bush threatening military action without congressional approval and being played by Putin? I am quite consistent on that. I supported President GHW Bush asking for use of force to get Saddam’s army out of Kuwait and I have always had high praise for his handling of that entire operation. I supported GWBush sending the Special Forces into Afghanistan to topple the Taliban regime. And I still support what we are doing in there. I considered the Bush Admin messaging legitimate in September 2002 that he needed an authorization to use force against Iraq in order to force Iraq to let the UN inspection process resume. I agree with both Republicans and Democrats on that because Iraq was in fact in violation of international law at that time because those inspectors were not in Iraq finishing the job. I thought that was legitimate not so much on the Nuclear issue as the Chemical and Biological Weapons threat in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks. It was Bush’s turn from stating he could invade Iraq without authorization and without seeking UN inspections to avert war to the talk that emerged in September 2002coinciding with sending Colin Powell to the UN. So yes. I am consistent. I support Obama using the threat of force to coerce parties into finding a diplomatic solution. And that is what happened. Except Obama wasn’t going for a ground invasion as his Republican challenger posed if he became president. And except, and this is a big one. I do not expect Obama to launch strikes unless the truth and facts and reality becomes. in the months ahead. that Syria and Putin were not serious about dismantling those tons of CW or if more Syrians are gassed to death to flaunt this negotiated settlement. Bush lost me when he got the diplomatic solution he said he wanted, and then he was the one that put an end to the diplomatic solutions. It was not Iraq that committed that dirty deed of ending UNSC inspections. It was Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/143 "2013-09-19T02:46:06Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Here’s what you responded to: > > “I have no problem seeing Assad’s use of CW as an act of terror thus making him a terrorist who has used terrorism as a military tactic. How about you?” > > I have no problem calling Assad a state terrorist. See “Arguments that terrorism is not committed by states” in that very article. > [@](#): > > > [@Red Fury](#): > > > > Perhaps some information is in order: > > But because they are cheap, easy to manufacture, and serve as a poor nation’s deterrent, chemical arms have fallen out of favor with the powerful, who portray them as “immoral weapons.” To protect their advantage in conventional weapons, great powers have promoted a taboo against chemical-weapon use. The taboo actually pre-dates chemical weapons being cheap or easy to manufacture, and their proliferation to poor nations. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/144 "2013-09-19T03:45:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > See “Arguments that terrorism is not committed by states” in that very article. Is it your position then that when an argument exists against using a definition that is in existence such as ‘state terrorism’ _not to be confused with state sponsored terrorism,_ it means that the definition ‘state terrorism’ no longer exists and cannot be used unless Human Action permits it to be used? Besides that I checked the link and Kofi Annan was making one of the three arguments and he is quoted as saying at the end of his argument… > [@](#): > > Annan added, “…regardless of the differences between governments on the question of definition of terrorism, what is clear and what we can all agree on is any deliberate attack on innocent civilians, regardless of one’s cause, is unacceptable and **fits into the definition of terrorism**.”[30] Your nitpicking aside, the argument about CW being outdated for conventional war is a diversion. The reality is there are 1000 tons of CW right now under the control of someone I have absolutely no problem (and apparently Kofi Annan would agree) calling him and his military leaders STATE TERRORISTS. As for as Red Fury’s cited op-ed from the Japanese Times, much of the cited statistics are most likely true, but the 1000 Tons of CW in Syria are not there because he likes to spend money and time on antique weaponry. He used some of what he produces and stockpiles. My point is valid because there is not a conventional war going on in Syria. And CW for the purpose of killing humans and livestock would be used to clear out rebel areas without destruction of property. Bombs can do more damage and killing its true, but big bombs are heavy and missiles to deliver the payload from a safe distance would not be as cost effective as launching some gas and let the wind carry it around. You cited what I was going to cite, _“But because they are cheap, easy to manufacture, and serve as a poor nation’s deterrent,”_ And Syria may not have been a poor nation like Yemen or Hiati etc but Syria owes the Russians I think $30 billion for conventional weapons they have purchased. Syria was not signatory to the CW convention. For killing human beings in Syria it looks like they are considered by some in the regime to be the most effective weapon for the (£1) Quid. Or they were… and won’t be for long… because Obama threatened to use limited force and now they are giving them up. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/145 "2013-09-19T04:46:06Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Hush, you’re going to confuse him with facts. > > As I said, many times prior to this one, bullets and bombs are much more effective at killing than CWs. I got the brush-off before, I expect you will too. You guessed correctly. I was brushed off. I even highlighted the relevant part of the resolution. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/146 "2013-09-19T06:16:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You guessed correctly. I was brushed off. I even highlighted the relevant part of the resolution. You were not brushed off. You posted this: [T]his resolution contains no “hidden triggers” and no “automaticity” with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12. The resolution makes clear that any Iraqi failure to comply is unacceptable and that Iraq must be disarmed. And, one way or another, Iraq will be disarmed. If the Security Council fails to act decisively in the event of further Iraqi violations, this resolution does not constrain any Member State from acting to defend itself against the threat posed by Iraq or to enforce relevant United Nations resolutions and protect world peace and security.[3] I will highlight what says there is not authorization to use force. _**[T]his resolution contains no “hidden triggers” and no “automaticity” with respect to the use of force**_. UNSC Authorization to use force could be considered if and only _ **"If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12.** _ This is not authorization by the UNSC by any means: _**" If the Security Council fails to act decisively in the event of further Iraqi violations, this resolution does not constrain any Member State from acting to defend itself against the threat posed by Iraq or to enforce relevant United Nations resolutions and protect world peace and security.[3**_ And that is because it says quite clearly IF THE SECURITY COUNCIL FAILS TO ACT DECISIVLY - now pay close attention to the next seven words - \*\*in the event of further Iraqi violations \*\* - which means Iraq would have to have further violations, and not act upon them, before member states could act on their own without UNSC authorization. The US does not believe it is ever constrained by the UNSC’s failure to act and that was put in there because that is the reality of the world powers that be. The UNSC did not authorize Bush to invade Iraq. In fact Kofi Annan said it quite clearly" > [@](#): > > By Charles Recknagel > > September 16, 2004 > Prague, 16 September 2004 (RFE/RL) – The United Nations secretary-general has never made a secret of his unhappiness with the U.S. decision to lead an invasion of Iraq without a clear mandate from the Security Council. > > But until this week, Kofi Annan had couched his criticism in diplomatic terms that stopped short of calling the U.S. action “illegal.” > > That changed this week. In an interview broadcast by the BBC World Service Interview Program, Annan declared explicitly that **the U.S.-led invasion violated the UN charter and hence international law. “I have indicated [the war against Iraq] was not in conformity with the UN Charter,” he said. “From our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal.”** > > [http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1054882.html](http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1054882.html) Can you cite anything to show that the UNSC voted in favor of the US invasion of Iraq with no veto from France Russia or China ? If not you are wrong. Bush and Blair on March 7 2003 put forth a draft resolution which contained language that would authorize the use of force. They did a vote count of the fifteen members and did not have the nine required so they pulled the resolution and went ahead with attacking Iraq on their own without UNSC authorization. Do you dispute any of this? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/147 "2013-09-19T06:29:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Certainly he meant the **objective,** but it took a lot of floundering to get there. E.g., Kerry’s suggestion that Assad give up his chem weapons included a clearly implied “As if!” The day Kerry said what he said it was “as if” as far as he knew. Either Putin didn’t have Assad on board or Putin was not ready himself to concede. After Kerry made the remark Putin was ready to concede. The hullaballoo about Putin spanking Obama is just that. It is based on nothing at all except contempt and dislike of Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/148 "2013-09-19T18:22:16Z")
> **[Syria may miss first deadline in U.S.-Russia chemical arms deal](https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-syria-deadline-20130919-story.html)** > > The ambitious agreement is challenged as indications arise that the Syrian government will not submit a toxic-stockpile inventory this weekend. Last Saturday, Kerry: “We agreed that Syria must submit within a week — not in 30 days, but in one week — a comprehensive listing,” Kerry said Saturday. He said the U.S. would allow “no games, no room for avoidance, or anything less than full compliance.” Today:The State Department signaled that it would not insist that Syrian President Bashar Assad produce the list Saturday, the end of a seven-day period spelled out in the framework deal that Washington and Moscow announced last weekend in Geneva. Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman, said Wednesday that “our goal is to see forward momentum” by Saturday, not the full list. “We’ve never said it was a hard and fast deadline.” ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/149 "2013-09-19T20:34:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > …I supported GWBush sending the Special Forces into Afghanistan to topple the Taliban regime. And I still support what we are doing in there… Can you provide a _logical_ reason for suppporting a failed state? > [@](#): > > …\*To most of the population, peace is an impossibility. Most feel a turn toward more violence is inevitable. Possibilities of peace are not part of the dialogue, few are even willing to voice the words “peace” or “nonviolence.” **Most people only talk about selecting the best of several very poor possibilities and all of these options are militaristic ones.** People are being squeezed between the insurgency and occupying powers. For some, especially in Kabul, the best of the poor choices is continuing on the path of US occupation. The sense of hopelessness is palpable, people feel there is no way out. Harun, a young Pastun tells us, “Perhaps Afghans just need to suffer more.” > > **Not a single sector of public or private life is running properly**. Tension is high. The people may appear unwelcoming and angry, because they are. Hakim tells us you may see people in a heated argument end it by laughing. In order to diffuse the tension of the moment, they shift to a joke. > > Attacks in Kabul are on the rise. In just the last month, there has been the brazen attack at the US Embassy as well as the suicide bombing that killed Rabbani, an adviser for the Karzai government as well as a warlord, (responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands, engaged in “peace talks” with the Taliban), in his own home. > > We are told that it might be best to avoid following a routine. Do not travel alone. Do not go out at night. Do not linger outside of our car, or our apartment. It’s best not to draw attention to ourselves. We are reminded that not only do Afghans distrust foreigners, but also, many have come to hate us over these ten long years. > > **Ten years. Untold numbers of deaths, 200 billion dollars (or is it 300 billion?) spent on eradicating the Taliban, eliminating a safe haven for al-Qaeda and stabilizing Afghanistan, to date, all lost causes. The Karzai government is either despised or mocked. The people recognize it for what it is, a puppet regime that is not responsible to the Afghan people, but to outside forces. Corruption is rampant and crushing poverty is everywhere.** Allegiances shift easily as desperation and greed drive people to make decisions based on possible cash rewards. > > **Nothing works. The education system, the health care system and the public works systems are in tatters. The various police forces, even in the safest sections of Kabul, can’t (or won’t) stop the violence. The Red Cross states that Afghanistan is more dangerous now than at anytime in the last 30 years.** You can’t drink the water from the tap; electricity goes off and on in rolling blackouts; the sewer system is archaic, with open trenches of raw sewerage running through the streets. There is no garbage collection. Two hundred billion dollars spent, and there is little to nothing to show for it. > > **Family systems are in tatters as well. Everywhere you turn, family members have been lost to war. Hundreds of thousands dead, hundreds of thousands maimed**. War has divided families and dispersed the fragments throughout the country. Civil society is falling apart because people have lost a sense of community; things have deteriorated to “everyone for themselves.” Distrust is a cancer spread throughout society. Ethnic groups distrust each other even more than usual. Business associates distrust each other, neighbors distrust each other and even family members distrust each other. > > **I ask myself, “What am I doing here?” This entails the broader question, “Why are we, America, here?” Former President Bush famously said, “We will fight them over there so we do not fight them over here.” I don’t think it ever dawned on him that if we don’t fight them over there, we might not need to fight them at all** …\* – much more at source. A hell of a lot of good you are doing there, besides making opium Aghanistan’s main export yet again. At the expense of how many innocent lifes? Who the hell cares? “Revenge and/or retaliation” which are totally meaningless at this point, are certainly not the answer. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/150 "2013-09-19T20:45:01Z")
[**The Failed States Index 2013**](http://ffp.statesindex.org/rankings-2013-sortable) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/151 "2013-09-19T21:56:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-syria-deadline-20130919,0,3368673.story](http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-syria-deadline-20130919,0,3368673.story) > > Last Saturday, Kerry: > > “We agreed that Syria must submit within a week — not in 30 days, but in one week — a comprehensive listing,” Kerry said Saturday. He said the U.S. would allow “no games, no room for avoidance, or anything less than full compliance.” > Today:The State Department signaled that it would not insist that Syrian President Bashar Assad produce the list Saturday, the end of a seven-day period spelled out in the framework deal that Washington and Moscow announced last weekend in Geneva. > > Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman, said Wednesday that “our goal is to see forward momentum” by Saturday, not the full list. “We’ve never said it was a hard and fast deadline.” It’s quite interesting what Assad said on Fox News: > [@](#): > > Fox News: And again that timeframe which Dennis mentioned, one week to come up with a full account of your chemical weapons, November for the first inspectors to come in, mid 2014 for all your chemical weapons to be destroyed; that’s an ambitious timetable even by expert standards, but you think that is doable? > > President Assad: Yeah, but we have to discuss these details with the organization first, this is first. Second, the time is not our problem; it is the problem of the organization, how much time do they need to implement this agreement. > > Fox News: You don’t necessarily sign on to that time limit? > > President Assad: No, no. The only thing we have to do is provide the information, and to make them accessible to our sites, which is not a problem. We can do it tomorrow, we don’t have any problem. > > Fox News: You could do it tomorrow? > > President Assad: Yeah, of course. We don’t have a problem. The problem is how fast they can be in getting rid of any chemical material, because this is a very complicated situation. It’s not about will; it’s about techniques. So, only experts can answer your question. > > [http://sana.sy/eng/21/2013/09/19/503275.htm](http://sana.sy/eng/21/2013/09/19/503275.htm) \*(President Assad: No, no. The only thing we have to do is provide the information, and to make them accessible to our sites, which is not a problem. We can do it tomorrow, we don’t have any problem. Fox News: You could do it tomorrow?)\* Assad answered: \*President Assad: Yeah, of course. We don’t have a problem. The problem is how fast they can be in getting rid of any chemical material, because this is a very complicated situation. It’s not about will; it’s about techniques. So, only experts can answer your question. - I am confident that any delay is not being caused by Syria. There is other reporting out there about the UN agency wanting to do this right. Have fun while you can. By November you won’t be having any because Syria will be disarmed. Kucinich fixed the Assad interview for Fox. What a team. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/152 "2013-09-19T22:23:26Z")
Is partisan gloating now a legitimate method of “debate”? Who knew! ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/153 "2013-09-19T22:27:13Z")
Sound Familiar? Ten years ago last April there were some cocky American luv Iraq Invaders just one month into to that violent WMD inspection program: See this comment under a link [Syria Asks UN TO Help Rid Mideast of Mass Weapons](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/894604/posts). to report titled “Syria asks UN to help rid Mideast of mass weapons” > [@](#): > > Attention Syria: The UN is useless at finding or eliminating WMD; just look at Iraq for evidence of this. However, the US is demonstrating that it has the manpower for the 100,000+ member inspection team that is capable of ridding the area of WMD. After the task in Iraq is complete, we will be happy to inspect and destroy additional WMD in the area. In fact, to show you how much we appreciate your cooperation, we’ll start with the WMD tha poses the greatest immediate threat in the area after Iraq – namely Syria. We can do it the easy way or the hard way; which would you prefer? > posted on April 16, 2003, 4:24:16 PM EDT by … ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/154 "2013-09-19T22:34:04Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Is partisan gloating now a legitimate method of “debate”? Who knew! I am gloating over the great news last week that diplomacy is winning out over military action with regard to Syria. If you think that is partisan I cannot dissagree with you more. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/155 "2013-09-20T00:04:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Marie _ **Harf** _, a State Department spokeswoman, said Wednesday that “our goal is to see forward momentum” by Saturday, not the full list. “We’ve never said it was a hard and fast deadline.” What an amazing appropriate name for a State Department spokesbeing. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/156 "2013-09-20T01:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Additionally, the fighting continues. Indeed, this is a huge win for peace and justice, and more importantly, Obama, who has ensured that his name will be forever linked to the outcome of this matter. Wonder how many people died in Syria today? -Werekoala #007 09-14-2013 02:05 PM 257p0205 > [@](#): > > Lotta killing going on in the meantime. -Werekoala #012 09-14-2013 02:21 PM 257p0221 Why is one of your angle’s for criticizing and mocking Obama to bring up the deaths of Syrians and link Obama’s name to the outcome of this matter? Obama’s red line comment was not drawn at the use of conventional weapons by the Syrian government on his own people? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/157 "2013-09-20T02:36:12Z")
Ignatius gets it right: > [@](#): > > **Obama is criticized for right result on Syria** > How did it happen that, less than a year after Barack Obama convincingly won reelection, his every move as president now draws hoots and catcalls from nearly every point on the political spectrum? > > Perhaps his Syria policy really is a story of “epic incompetence,” as Charles Krauthammer opined last week. Maybe he has an “unbelievably small” presidency, as Marc Thiessen commented, or that no one is afraid of him, as Ruth Marcus argued. And that’s just a sampling of opinion from my colleagues at The Post. -By David Ignatius, Published: September 18 > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-obama-is-criticized-for-right-result-on-syria/2013/09/18/b2a08acc-1ffb-11e3-b7d1-7153ad47b549\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-obama-is-criticized-for-right-result-on-syria/2013/09/18/b2a08acc-1ffb-11e3-b7d1-7153ad47b549_story.html) All should read this. > [@](#): > > What’s puzzling about this latest bout of Obama-phobia is that recent developments in Syria have generally been positive from the standpoint of U.S. interests. > > Obama has accomplished goals that most Americans endorse, given the unpalatable menu of choices. Polls suggest that the public overwhelmingly backs the course Obama has chosen. APost-ABC News surveyasked Americans if they endorsed the U.S.-Russian plan to dismantle Syrian chemical weapons as an alternative to missile strikes; 79 percent were supportive. and this > [@](#): > > Here’s what I see when I deconstruct the Syria story: > > ●Russia has been drawn into a process of collecting and destroying Syria’s chemical arsenal. This has been a goal of U.S. policy for two years. It finally worked, thanks in part to Obama’s pledge to use military force to punish Syria if the Russians didn’t step up. In this messy world, there is considerable value in agreement by Moscow and Washington on the “soonest and safest” destruction of Syrian chemical weapons, with a timetable for implementation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/158 "2013-09-20T02:38:00Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am gloating over the great news last week that diplomacy is winning out over military action with regard to Syria. If you think that is partisan I cannot dissagree with you more. I share your relief that Putin’s diplomatic efforts seem to be winning out over Obama’s miltitaristic ones, but it’s still still very early in the process. Let’s keep in mind that Putin is still denying that Assad used CWs, so the senior partner in this effort isn’t exactly on the same page with the US and other Western Powers. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/159 "2013-09-20T05:41:16Z")
The LA Times is [reporting](http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-syria-deadline-20130919,0,3368673.story) that Syria may miss the first deadline in the deal, for providing an inventory. Let’s hope the deal as a whole stays on track. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/160 "2013-09-20T06:08:14Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The LA Times is [reporting](http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-syria-deadline-20130919,0,3368673.story) that Syria may miss the first deadline in the deal, for providing an inventory. Let’s hope the deal as a whole stays on track. that can’t be. Kerry drew a line in the sand. He didn’t color code it but it sure sounded red to me. And Assad said it was no problem so the clock’s ticking. 6 more days and we’ll know where all of them are. And NotfooledbyW has extolled the virtues of our dear leader’s diplomacy. So it’s GOING to happen. And we’ll be able to prove it because… well it’s just GOING to happen. Rest assured. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852.md?page=9)