# Russia wanted Trump as an asset for 40 years **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 29, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794 "2021-01-29T17:16:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/1 "2021-01-29T17:16:16Z")
According to a book just out. > **[‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book)** > > The KGB ‘played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality’, Yuri Shvets, a key source for a new book, tells the Guardian ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/2 "2021-01-30T02:26:34Z")
This does not surprise me at all. Now that people are free to talk I hope we hear some more about this and other Russia shenanigans. I feel like any investigator anywhere just needs to dig a little bit below the surface and we won’t have to worry about Trump in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/3 "2021-01-30T09:51:58Z")
For clarity, the KGB pursued lots of potential assets. It’s not like they recruited Trump specifically to make him President 40 years later. They cast a wide net and hoped for the best. Most of the work had little to no benefit, but this one paid off spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/4 "2021-01-30T11:32:48Z")
I think we’ve now found the picture to put next to the term ‘useful idiot’ in the Illustrated Dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/5 "2021-01-30T13:35:07Z")
I’d love it if you were right, but I’d feel like his diet is a safer bet. ---
**Author:** ![Jillwood77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e47c2d/32.png) [@Jillwood77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillwood77)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/6 "2021-01-31T05:59:41Z")
It just seems to be some conspiracy stuff going around that Trump was very pro Russia. What policy? I don’t see any policy or trade showing he was friends with Russia and very pro Russia. Trump said doing his speech he is placing America first. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/7 "2021-01-31T06:41:16Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > What policy? I don’t see any policy or trade showing he was friends with Russia and very pro Russia. Then you can’t have been paying [attention](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/21/why-russians-still-prefer-trump/). > [@](#): > > Maguire’s replacement by [Trump propagandist Richard Grenell](https://wapo.st/2V6Ytwb) sends a loud and clear signal that Trump does not want to do anything to impede Russian attacks on the U.S. political system — which he sees as beneficial to his own campaign. In case there was any doubt, Trump on Friday dismissed the findings of the U.S. intelligence community about Russia’s desire to aid his reelection campaign as a “hoax” and “misinformation campaign.” […] > > Putin doesn’t care about Trump’s sanctions on Iran, which indirectly help Russia by boosting the price of oil. But he does care that Trump has strengthened Russia’s longtime ally in Syria, Bashar al-Assad. In July 2017, Trump ended a covert program of training and supplying moderate Syrian rebels — “a move long sought by Russia,” as [The Post noted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-ends-covert-cia-program-to-arm-anti-assad-rebels-in-syria-a-move-sought-by-moscow/2017/07/19/b6821a62-6beb-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_7). More recently, in October, Trump did Putin another solid by moving U.S. forces out of [northern Syria](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/13/trump-us-troops-northern-syria-turkish-assault-kurds), allowing Assad’s troops and their Russian allies to move in. Pictures of Russian troops occupying abandoned U.S. bases show the changing of the guard in the Middle East. […] > > Trump has facilitated Russian designs not only in Syria but also in Libya, where the Russian-backed strongman Khalifa Hifter is trying to overthrow a United Nations-backed government in Tripoli. […] [Trump called Hifter](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-24/trump-libya-haftar-tripoli) and gave him a green light for his offensive. Trump is making Russia great again in the Middle East […] > > What about the fact that the United States has tightened sanctions on Russia since Trump came to office? True but irrelevant. It happened over [Trump’s opposition](https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/02/politics/donald-trump-russia-sanctions-bill/index.html). To this day, the administration is [fighting efforts](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-administration-battles-new-sanctions-on-russia) in Congress to strengthen sanctions […] > > Far from strengthening NATO, as he now [boasts](https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1204767656546619392/), Trump has weakened it by relentlessly criticizing the alliance and portraying it as a bunch of deadbeats. […] > > Finally, Trump helps Russia simply by spreading chaos in the U.S. government and division in U.S. politics. It is Putin’s dream to have an American president who denigrates dedicated FBI agents, intelligence officers and diplomats — all on the front lines of combating Russian aggression — as “deep state,” “traitors” and “human scum.” > > Note that Trump, who vilifies everyone else, never has a negative word to say about Putin. […] > > Republicans should hardly be surprised to learn that the Russians are working in secret to reelect Trump. They are openly rooting for him to win. As media analyst Julia Davis [notes](https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trumps-fury-at-intel-briefing-shows-vladimir-putins-bet-keeps-paying-off) in the Daily Beast, a commentator on a popular Russian television show gushed last October: “I look at Trump and think: ‘May God grant him good health — and another term.’ This is a great situation for Russia.” > > What makes this situation all the sweeter for Russia is that the Republican Party, which stood on the front lines of fighting Russia from 1917 to 2017, blindly backs Trump as he pursues pro-Russia policies at odds with U.S. interests. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/8 "2021-01-31T16:40:34Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > Trump said doing his speech he is placing America first. Did you ever notice that Trump had a pattern of saying one thing and doing another? As I recall he did it quite often. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/9 "2021-01-31T17:51:45Z")
I think this is an important point b/c a lot of people dismiss the idea of being a KGB asset as an outrageous conspiracy theory; in reality, it’s quite realistic and not as complicated as one might believe. It’s possible that Trump was not even remotely aware that he was being used as an asset. It’s possible that Trump believed he might have been an asset but didn’t see the harm in it. And it’s possible that he was willingly an asset and went along with it knowing the consequences. All are possible. My own personal suspicion/conclusion is that the truth is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum: Trump probably figured out that Russian agents or people in power wanted Trump to do some bidding for them but didn’t necessarily see it as a destructive act. He might have even justified it or convinced himself that he was something akin to an unofficial strategic liaison who could serve both US and Russian interests, in addition to his own. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/10 "2021-01-31T18:10:08Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He might have even justified it or convinced himself that he was something akin to an unofficial strategic liaison who could serve both US and Russian interests, in addition to his own. That sounds way more coherent and rational than anything Trump seems likely to think. I will need some fairly firm evidence to believe that there was any more depth to this interaction than that the Russians strategically flattered Trump and he lapped it up, taking it for granted that anything he chose to do is by definition perfectly fine (not to mention The Best Thing To Do Ever). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/11 "2021-01-31T18:43:37Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > It just seems to be some conspiracy stuff going around that Trump was very pro Russia. > > What policy? I don’t see any policy or trade showing he was friends with Russia and very pro Russia. > > Trump said doing his speech he is placing America first. US intelligence agencies all agreed that Russia had been meddling in the US elections in 2016 with a goal to casting doubts on the fairness of the US electoral system, which is at the heart of US democracy. Trump publicly said, at a news conference in Helsinki, standing next to Putin, that he had asked Putin, who had denied it. Trump said he believed Putin rather than the US intelligence community. > **[Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812)** > > The US president contradicts intelligence agencies over claims of interference in the US election. While on the campaign trail in 2016, Trump publicly called on Russia to hack into Clinton’s e-mails. That is, he was encouraging a foreign power to commit criminal offences against his political opponent, for his own political benefit. And it turns out that Russian intelligence services started doing so right about that time. > **[Trump asked Russia to find Clinton’s emails. On or around the same day,...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-find-clintons-emails-on-or-around-the-same-day-russians-targeted-her-accounts)** > > "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press," Trump said in a July 27, 2016, news conference. So, I suppose you could say that it’s just a conspiracy theory that all of the US intelligence services thought Russia was interfereing in the US election, and believe President Putin’s assurances that they weren’t. Trump evidently did. Or, you could put your faith in your own intelligence service over the word of a foreign autocrat in charge of a nuclear arsenal pointed at your county. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/12 "2021-01-31T22:30:50Z")
Forty years ago I suspect the Russians didn’t look at the gormless, rapacious business scum-bag Young Donald Trump and immediately think ‘Future President’. If he was worth the effort then so would have been many other business people, sounded out to see if they had any deep abiding sentiment to Marxism, dirty blackmailable secrets or simply access to government. I suspect, though, that few of these business leaders would have been as insipidly lacking in self-awareness as him, and so incapable on reflecting from others’ perspectives as to be so easily used. It seems that if you could get to the point of a handshake and were able to say a few flattering things you would immediately become his new best friend and he would follow you guilelessly like a puppy on a leash. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/13 "2021-01-31T22:41:20Z")
Besides, when you’re recruiting assets like this, you frequently don’t even know what use they will be, or if they will ever _have_ a use. You just quietly push a lot of buttons, and take notes, and see what comes up. Where someone is a promising candidate, either because they’re actively receptive to the ideology or because (ahem) they’re a spectacular moron who can be easily steered with puffed-up flattery, their name goes in a notebook for future reference, in case their knowledge, skills, or connections might be valuable later. Then you keep them warm on the back burner for months, or years, or maybe forever. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/14 "2021-01-31T22:57:57Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > It just seems to be some conspiracy stuff going around that Trump was very pro Russia. > > What policy? I don’t see any policy or trade showing he was friends with Russia and very pro Russia. Trump undercut NATO, in Russia’s favour. When on the campaign trail in 2016, he said that if he became President, he wouldn’t automatically defend the three Baltic states from Russian attack: > **[Trump would not leap to defend Baltic states from Russian attack: NYT](https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/21/trump-would-not-leap-to-defend-baltic-states-from-russian-attack-nyt.html)** > > Trump tells The New York Times he would not automatically come to the aid of Baltic states if they came under Russian attack. There are two things about that: first, once that statement is out, then it strengthens Russia and undercuts three allies. Saying that he wouldn’t automatically defend three NATO allies who only recently won their freedom from Russia was a significant policy statement in favour of Russia. Second, NATO is based on the principle that an attack on one is an attack on all, and all are pledged to defend. That’s Article V of the NATO treaty. When Trump said he wouldn’t automatically defend NATO allies from Russian attack, he was badly damaging the NATO alliance, which was a major advantage for Russia. Then, the next year, when he was President and speaking at a NATO heads of state/government meeting, he did not retract his earlier statement that he wouldn’t defend other allies under Article V. That failure to affirm the basic principle of NATO badly damaged the strength of the alliance, again strengthening Russia. (To repeat, that would be the country that has a nuclear arsenal aimed at the US. One would think that the US would want to do as much as possible to undercut that country, and to strengthen alliances between the US and other countries concerned about the Russian military.) > **[Trump’s Article 5 Omission Was an Attack Against All of NATO](https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/26/trumps-article-5-omission-was-an-attack-against-all-of-nato/)** > > When President Trump spoke to NATO members for the first time on Thursday he failed to say the one thing Europeans were waiting to hear. Now, he did walk that back a couple of weeks later and affirmed Article V, but that was only after intense diplomatic pressure from NATO members, and presumably some internal pressure as well. But the damage was done. The NATO countries got the message: under Trump, the United States cannot be counted on to be a reliable NATO ally against Russia. That result is worth whatever kompromat Russia has showered on Trump. Weakening NATO strengthens Russia’s military and diplomatic position. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/15 "2021-01-31T23:27:50Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > My own personal suspicion/conclusion is that the truth is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum: Trump probably figured out that Russian agents or people in power wanted Trump to do some bidding for them but didn’t necessarily see it as a destructive act. He might have even justified it or convinced himself that he was something akin to an unofficial strategic liaison who could serve both US and Russian interests, in addition to his own. I’m reminded of _Catch 22_, when Milo got the Germans to take some surplus cotton off his hands and, in return, agreed to bomb his own airfield. It’s just business. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/16 "2021-01-31T23:47:56Z")
> [@Jillwood77](#): > > It just seems to be some conspiracy stuff going around that Trump was very pro Russia. > > What policy? I don’t see any policy or trade showing he was friends with Russia and very pro Russia. On May 10, 2017, President Trump had a meeting with the Russian Foreign Minister and the Russian Ambassador to the US, in the Oval Office itself. No other Americans were in the room, only a Russian photographer. At the meeting, Trump revealed highly classified information, about intelligence on the Islamic State, which had been relayed to the US by an unidentified ally, widely assumed to be Israel. The disclosure did not just reveal the information, but the source of the information, thereby jeopardising the source and revealing information about the intel abilities and methods of that US ally. > **[Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html)** > > The president was boasting of the “great intel” he receives when he discussed intelligence provided by a U.S. partner. > [@](#): > > The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through **an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government,** officials said. > > **The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally** that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency. The President’s actions favoured Russia. He put the life of the foreign source at risk. He also damaged a significant intelligence relationship with an ally. More generally, he made other western countries wary about sharing intel with the US, because the US could not be trusted to keep intel secret. Why would Trump want to provide such highly confidential information to Russe, particularly in a meeting where he was closeted with two high-ranking Russian officials? Why? > **[Donald Trump's disclosures of classified information](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%27s_disclosures_of_classified_information)** > > Donald Trump's handling of United States government records, especially those containing classified information, during his tenure as the 45th U.S. president has come under scrutiny. A number of incidents in which the president disclosed classified information to foreign powers and private individuals have become publicly known, sometimes with distinct national security and diplomatic consequences. > Notably, on May 10, 2017, Trump disclosed classified information to Russian government repres... ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/17 "2021-02-01T01:05:58Z")
That’s probably true, but my point is, if he was aware he was somehow being used, he probably had some sort of justification for it, to downplay the severity of his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-wanted-trump-as-an-asset-for-40-years/931794/18 "2021-02-01T01:09:44Z")
Spot on, mate. I think they’ve benefited a lot in recent years by the SCOTUS’ decision to allow dark money. That opened up a shitload of possibilities to exploit the openness of our society and political system that might not have existed before 2010. Assets that might have been dead ends before 2010, suddenly became very useful idiots afterward. Consider how Russia was able to use oligarchs to bankroll Republican causes and to infiltrate groups like NRA, which in turn, enabled access to grassroots activists and the pols themselves.