# Russian airliner crash in Sinai **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 2, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452 "2015-11-02T19:47:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/41 "2015-11-07T03:33:26Z")
So, I guess [it’s a bomb after all.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/middleeast/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai/) FTL: \* > [@](#): > > European investigators who analyzed the two flight recorders from the Metrojet plane that went down last weekend in Egypt are categorically saying the crash is not an accident, CNN affiliate France 2 reported Friday. > > The investigators said the cockpit voice recorder of Metrojet Flight 9268 shows an explosion and the flight data recorder confirms the explosion is not accidental… > > …CNN Aviation Analyst Richard Quest said there would have been different data on the black boxes if there was a catastrophic failure than if there was an explosion. The key is what happened just before the data suddenly stops, he said. > > “It’s this split second, and it’s a millisecond, where you hear an explosion of some description,” he said. “And you see all the parameters (on the recorders) go haywire before the power is completely lost. If this report is accurate, (investigators) have now analyzed that … heard it and they can identify it.” > > If the plane had broken apart due to structural failure, there would have been more noise – and for a longer time, he said. - FWIW, I am of the opinion that the bombing was done by elements of the Muslim Brotherhood, who are busy fighting an on again/off again insurgency in the Sinai Peninsula against the Egyptian government, and who are also affiliated with some of the groups the Russians have been bombing in Syria. I do not believe ISIS/ISIL is responsible, though it certainly suits the US government to claim so. It certainly wouldn’t be unprecedented however for the [Russians to bomb themselves and blame another group for the attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings), in order to get national and global opinion behind whatever actions the Russian government wished to take anyway. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/42 "2015-11-07T03:58:13Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I do not believe ISIS/ISIL is responsible, though it certainly suits the US government to claim so. It certainly wouldn’t be unprecedented however for the [Russians to bomb themselves and blame another group for the attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings), in order to get national and global opinion behind whatever actions the Russian government wished to take anyway. Horse puckey. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/43 "2015-11-07T14:09:06Z")
so what is Putin’s next step? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/44 "2015-11-07T23:10:32Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I’m surprised the Israelis haven’t been blamed yet. [They have been](http://www.albawaba.com/loop/conspiracy-theorists-are-already-blaming-israel-sinai-plane-crash-762090). ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/45 "2015-11-08T05:22:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > > > I’m surprised the Israelis haven’t been blamed yet. > > [They have been](http://www.albawaba.com/loop/conspiracy-theorists-are-already-blaming-israel-sinai-plane-crash-762090). Yep, this was my first thought when I heard about this crash. And BTW, nice to see you back **Der Trihs**. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/46 "2015-11-08T09:57:31Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > It certainly wouldn’t be unprecedented however for the [Russians to bomb themselves and blame another group for the attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings), in order to get national and global opinion behind whatever actions the Russian government wished to take anyway. I’ll admit that “false flag” popped into my mind when I heard it was probably a bomb. However, the problem with that theory is that Russia doesn’t need popular opinion to start bombing Syria – they’ve already gone and started. So what would they need popular opinion for? To bomb them harder? I’m also interested to know how the bomb got on the plane in the first place. If it turns out some Egyptian gov’t agency is responsible for collusion, well – that’s really gonna throw a monkey wrench in the works. > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > And BTW, nice to see you back **Der Trihs**. Ditto. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bering)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/47 "2015-11-08T11:29:42Z")
What will the Russian response be if it is confirmed to have been blown up by ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/48 "2015-11-08T15:24:31Z")
> [@Bering](#): > > What will the Russian response be if it is confirmed to have been blown up by ISIS? Probably nothing. The Russians are already fighting in Syria - with little success - and they won’t get directly involved inside Egypt. It is, after all, a U.S. ally. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/49 "2015-11-08T16:12:40Z")
The last two years have been full of “the Russians won’t do this, this and that” followed shortly by the Russians doing “this, this and that”. At this stage, I will be surprised by nothing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/50 "2015-11-08T16:15:15Z")
> [@Bering](#): > > What will the Russian response be if it is confirmed to have been blown up by ISIS? Well, they’ve already stopped all flights to and from Egypt. (and evacuated tourists) > **[Russia plane crash: '11,000 tourists back' from Egypt](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34759570)** > > Russia says it has brought back 11,000 tourists from Egypt in the past 24 hours, after cancelling all flights to the country following the Sinai crash. And hard to say who planted a potential bomb, but the evidence is leaning more and more towards “bomb on plane”. Allegedly, the black box sound recording indicates it was a bomb. > **[Report: Black boxes show bomb brought down Russian jet | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/middleeast/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai/)** > > European investigators who analyzed the flight recorders from the Metrojet plane that went down in Egypt say the crash is not an accident, France 2 reports. (warning, auto-starting video with sound) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/51 "2015-11-08T16:16:32Z")
The Russians’ problem, I believe, is that they’re suffering from delusions of competence. ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/52 "2015-11-08T16:27:47Z")
> [@Bering](#): > > What will the Russian response be if it is confirmed to have been blown up by ISIS? ISIS is not a country so where does the funding come from-? > **[ISIS, who be they, where do their funds come from?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=773018)** > > UN Report Reveals How Israel is Coordinating with ISIS Militants Inside Syria 21WIRE reported back in December 2014 and again in January 2015, how the \*\*State of Israel has consistently provided both material, medical relief and IDF airstrike... ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/53 "2015-11-08T17:28:40Z")
> [@tooldtocare](#): > > ISIS is not a country so where does the funding come from-? > > [ISIS, who be they, where do their funds come from? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=773018) The linked post could have come straight out of Der Sturmer. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > I’ll admit that “false flag” popped into my mind when I heard it was probably a bomb. However, the problem with that theory is that Russia doesn’t need popular opinion to start bombing Syria – they’ve already gone and started. So what would they need popular opinion for? To bomb them harder? > > I’m also interested to know how the bomb got on the plane in the first place. If it turns out some Egyptian gov’t agency is responsible for collusion, well – that’s really gonna throw a monkey wrench in the works. > Ditto. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/54 "2015-11-08T17:30:36Z")
Sorry buddha\_david…didnt mean to quote you and dont know how to edit post on tapatalk. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/55 "2015-11-08T18:05:55Z")
> [@tooldtocare](#): > > ISIS is not a country so where does the funding come from-? > > [ISIS, who be they, where do their funds come from? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=773018) The same place any other bandit group gets theirs: by pillaging their new subjects. Then by “taxing” anyone who tries to run an economy in their area, or who tries to bring in goods for sale. Their “portable refineries” are pretty well known. When you can steal crude or refined goods from pipelines that’s just a very easy form of mining. No mystery here at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/56 "2015-11-08T19:49:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The same place any other bandit group gets theirs: by pillaging their new subjects. Then by “taxing” anyone who tries to run an economy in their area, or who tries to bring in goods for sale. > > Their “portable refineries” are pretty well known. When you can steal crude or refined goods from pipelines that’s just a very easy form of mining. > > No mystery here at all. [2B USD](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/iraq-isis-arrest-jihadists-wealth-power) is _a lot_ of looting and oil selling. And while it is likely that ISIS looted oil fields in E. Syria and W. Iraq, how did they move all of that oil? Usually, large quantities of oil are moved via pipeline to tanker or refinery, but weren’t most of the pipelines in ISIS-held territory inoperable for one reason or another? (And if not, why the hell not?) If pipelines are out, that leaves trains and trucks, and it takes a staggering amount of trucks to move even 200 million USD worth of oil, never mind 2 billion USD’s worth I think the “It was the Joows!” linkbomber above is, to be polite, ‘far from credible’, but neither have I thought that ISIS is entirely self-funded. They make an excellent Sunni proxy army, counterweighting the influence of Iran and Hezbollah through Iraq and Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/57 "2015-11-08T20:05:17Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > I’ll admit that “false flag” popped into my mind when I heard it was probably a bomb. However, the problem with that theory is that Russia doesn’t need popular opinion to start bombing Syria – they’ve already gone and started. So what would they need popular opinion for? To bomb them harder? > > I’m also interested to know how the bomb got on the plane in the first place. If it turns out some Egyptian gov’t agency is responsible for collusion, well – that’s really gonna throw a monkey wrench in the works. > Ditto. 🆒 I don’t think it’s a false flag. I think the MB did it, angered at Russian military activities against their affiliated groups in Syria. If Russia were bombing ISIS, I’d suspect them, but AFAIK, they really haven’t been. I just thought it prudent to mention the possibility that Russia might need to convince the Ivan on the Street that spending money on this sort of thing when [Russia is going broke](http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2015/05/14/a-russian-crisis-with-no-end-in-sight-thanks-to-low-oil-prices-and-sanctions/) is a necessary expense. Especially since Russia’s last military adventure, while [currently under a ceasefire](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34606598), doesn’t seem to have gained much for Russia. The economy of the Donbass region is largely wrecked, [thousands have died](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-03/kerry-meets-lavrov-as-ukraine-death-toll-soars-past-62c000kerr/6275728), and for what? So the rebels in that slice of Eastern Ukraine can have a little more autonomy from Kiev? That was worth incurring EU and US sanctions? There are valid geopolitical reasons for Russia getting involved in Syria: historical client state & previous purchaser of Russia military hardware, “warm water port” and naval base, blocking any gas/oil pipeline to Europe that would bypass Gazprom, etc… But it’s possible that Putin felt that those reasons wouldn’t be as visceral to the Russian public or to the oligarchs that support his rule, as a blown up Airbus filled with Russian upper middle class vacationers would be. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/58 "2015-11-09T07:14:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Russians’ problem, I believe, is that they’re suffering from delusions of competence. Word to the wise, when a great power has such delusions and they are interfering in your neighbourhood, run. Hide. Vote for whichever bugger promises the least interaction with the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/59 "2015-11-09T08:05:36Z")
I’m not sure I’d call the Russians a “great power”. Their economy is weak, and their military, while large, is not particularly modern, not particularly well trained, and has very limited force projection capabilities. But don’t worry - there’s no profit in needlessly antagonizing them. I just don’t think they’ll be that successful in their endeavors. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452/60 "2015-11-09T08:48:40Z")
Of course Russia is a great power. They project influence globally. They’re not a _superpower_ any more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-airliner-crash-in-sinai/736452.md?page=4)