# Russian Alphabet: Was Cyril Dyslexic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849 "2006-11-17T17:01:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/1 "2006-11-17T17:01:33Z")
If you hold up the roman alphabet characters to a mirror, the letters look a lot like cyrillic characters 9invented by the greek monk Cyril). Was Cyril dyslexic? Is that how he came up with the russian alphabet? ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/2 "2006-11-17T18:05:25Z")
If St. Cyril had been a Latin monk then this might be a possibility. Given that he was Greek, the alphabet that you should be comparing it too is Greek, where you will find a much greater correspondence. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/3 "2006-11-17T18:47:52Z")
[QUOTE=JohnM] If St. Cyril had been a Latin monk then this might be a possibility. Given that he was Greek, the alphabet that you should be comparing it too is Greek, where you will find a much greater correspondence. [/QUOTE] Ah. So the _Romans_ were dyslexic. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/4 "2006-11-17T19:03:54Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] If you hold up the roman alphabet characters to a mirror, the letters look a lot like cyrillic characters 9invented by the greek monk Cyril). Was Cyril dyslexic? Is that how he came up with the russian alphabet? [/QUOTE] Only N and R look like Cyrillic when reversed. That’s not much to base an argument on. ---
**Author:** ![VampyChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5daacb/32.png) [@VampyChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VampyChick)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/5 "2006-11-17T20:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=Alive At Both Ends] Only N and R look like Cyrillic when reversed. That’s not much to base an argument on. [/QUOTE] According to one of my professors the backwards R-thingy (_Ya_) used to look quite different. It was altered by imperial decree after the invention of the movable-type printing press, to make it jive more closely with readily available letters. Also, the C, O, and P, among others, are all the right way 'round. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/6 "2006-11-17T21:06:00Z")
According to the Britannica, Cyril and Methodius based their creations (Cyrillic and Glagolitic alphabets) on Greek letters **and combinations of letters** , borrowing from the Hebrew alphabet for a few letters (shin, tzaddi) needed. The present Bulgarian, Russian, Serbian, etc. alphabets vary slightly between themselves and are based on reductions from the original to eliminate unnecessary letters. (E.g., theta was originally borrowed, but the /th/ sound assimilated to /f/ so the phi equivalent replaced it in writing. Fyodor Dostoyevski’s patron saint was St. Theodor.) ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/7 "2006-11-19T12:14:07Z")
The “backwards R-thingy (ya)” makes more sense if you think of it as a handwritten lowercase “a” grown large. I always guessed this is where it came from but don’t know. Don’t they look like backwards Latin letters because Latin letters have a general appearance in common? That is, if there had been more Latin letters they might have looked like the Cyrillic ones. I think you could guess that other letters were Japanese Kanji, or Arabic, or maybe Hebrew, without recognizing those particular letters. It’s just that latin and Cyrillic letters have a theme in common. They all fit into roughly the same portrait-oriented rectangular box and tend to have most of their line segments falling vertically or horizontally on the outlines of the box or horizontally across the middle; often they occupy only the lower 1/2 of the box; and often they have loop shapes that either occupy the entire lower half or the upper half. There are few line segments oriented at other angles or through the center of the upper or lower half, and no loops at mid-height. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/8 "2006-11-19T14:56:48Z")
The mirror-imaged N letter in handwriting is very similar to the lowercase eta letter from the Greek alphabet. And they both correspond to the same sound. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/9 "2006-11-19T15:32:34Z")
What always struck me as odd in Russia were the familiar red ocatagonal stop signs with the word “cton” on them, which, of course, is pronounced “stop”. There must be a Russian word for stop, so why the direct transposition into cyrillic? Same thing for “pectopah”, which is pronounced “restaurant”. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/10 "2006-11-19T15:39:13Z")
“Restoran” (phonetically) is the Russian word for restaurant. “Stop” is also phonetically the correct word, in Russian. The first came to both languages fairly recently from French, but the first is just one of those PIE words that lives on in various forms in various languages. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/11 "2006-11-19T15:41:55Z")
Er… the SECOND word (“stop”) is a proto-Indo-European, etc. BTW, Vampy, things “jibe” in the sense you mean. It’s a term taken from boating meaning to turn sail to go with the wind. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/12 "2006-11-19T22:02:50Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] “Restoran” (phonetically) is the Russian word for restaurant. “Stop” is also phonetically the correct word, in Russian. The first came to both languages fairly recently from French, but the first is just one of those PIE words that lives on in various forms in various languages. [/QUOTE] So what did they call restaurants before there was a French word for them? Pie-hole stuffing places? Interesting, though. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/13 "2006-11-19T22:16:25Z")
There were inns and taverns, I suppose. In English, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Timchik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@Timchik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timchik)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/14 "2006-11-19T22:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] So what did they call restaurants before there was a French word for them? Pie-hole stuffing places? Interesting, though. Thanks. [/QUOTE] What did the English call them? It’s a loanword in both languages, after all. They had words that mean inn/pub/tavern - _kabak, traktir_ - but there was a huge influx of foreign words in 18th century Russian as the nobility began speaking French preferentially (to the point some had trouble speaking Russian). Given the sort who would be able to frequent a restaurant, it’s not surprising the word established itself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/15 "2006-11-19T22:47:54Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] So what did they call restaurants before there was a French word for them? Pie-hole stuffing places? Interesting, though. Thanks. [/QUOTE] What did the French call [_bistros_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bistro) before the Russians occupied Paris? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/16 "2006-11-19T22:47:56Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] So what did they call restaurants before there was a French word for them? Pie-hole stuffing places? Interesting, though. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Tangential fun fact: the French word _bistro_ supposedly comes from the Russian быстро (b[sup]w[/sup]istro]), meaning “quick,” as in fast food. I think a lot of the older “restaurant” words were adaptations of “inn / hotel” words, like “tavern.” ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/17 "2006-11-19T22:53:20Z")
My understanding is that the French pretty much invented the concept of the restaurant as a place of business (as opposed to a street vendor) that primarily sells food. A tavern or pub primarily sells alcohol, while an inn primarily rents out sleeping accomodations. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/18 "2006-11-20T00:18:14Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke] My understanding is that the French pretty much invented the concept of the restaurant as a place of business (as opposed to a street vendor) that primarily sells food. A tavern or pub primarily sells alcohol, while an inn primarily rents out sleeping accomodations. [/QUOTE] And the original use of “restaurant” in France was a place where you received “restoratives,” i.e., enemas. I assume they served food, too, and once the fad for restoratives ended, they continued to serve food. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/19 "2006-11-20T03:15:56Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] And the original use of “restaurant” in France was a place where you received “restoratives,” i.e., enemas. I assume they served food, too, and once the fad for restoratives ended, they continued to serve food. [/QUOTE] Um, no. The “restoratives” referred to were, in fact, the food. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849/20 "2006-11-20T03:39:09Z")
> [@](#): > > The “backwards R-thingy (ya)” makes more sense if you think of it as a handwritten lowercase “a” grown large. I always guessed this is where it came from but don’t know. Я, though it’s today pronounced “ya”, is actually descended from a separate letter. The original alphabet used for writing Old Church Slavonic was [Glagolitic](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/glagolitic.htm). It looks like pretty much no other alphabet, but probably had its origin in cursive Greek writing, with some letters (sha and tsi) borrowed from Hebrew, and others made up to fit Slavic phonology. Two Glagolitic letters were the big yus and the small yus, and they were probably pronounced as nasal vowels, as can still be heard in modern Polish. They were among the Glagolitic letters borrowed into the later Cyrillic alphabet, which was more closely modelled after the Greek. As Old Church Slavonic turned into Church Slavonic, and the modern Slavic languages diverged, several sounds were lost, such as the yers (written in Cyrillic as ъ and ь ) , which were ultra-short vowels. ь is still around as the soft sign, but most instances of ъ were dropped by the Soviet spelling reforms, as it had become mostly superfluous. Anyways, the nasal sounds represented by the yuses disappeared early on. There were originally non-iotated and iotated variants, but that distinction disappeared too. The small yus completely merged with “E”, since there was no longer any distinction at all between the sounds, but Russian and Church Slavonic still distinguished between А and Я, so the big yus was kept around to represent an iotated “a” sound. When the modern typefaces were developed, it was changed from the Glagolitic-looking letter it originally was to Я, which meshed better with the new typefaces. If you go [here](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cyrillic.htm) you can see the original form of the Cyrillic alphabet at top, and about halfway down the page, you can see the yuses in blue. The similarity between the big yus and Я is obvious. Now ask me about yat’! (Or don’t, please; one could write many thick books on _that_ one stupid letter…) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-alphabet-was-cyril-dyslexic/380849.md?page=2)