# Russian Dry Dock sinks, with Aircraft Carrier inside. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 6, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064 "2018-11-06T11:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/41 "2018-11-10T05:08:54Z")
[quote=“Dr.Strangelove, post:27, topic:824064”] The best thing about this is the > [@](#): > > ([Russia’s only aircraft carrier damaged as its floating dry dock sinks | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-damaged-as-its-floating-dry-dock-sinks/)) from the Russian press officer: > “Off-design mode” is a wonderful euphemism, like rapid unscheduled disassembly, lithobraking, or uncontrolled flight into terrain. “Energetic disassembly” when something goes “boom” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/42 "2018-11-10T05:58:34Z")
Russia might as well write off the idea of a carrier fleet and go all frigates, destroyers and subs only. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/43 "2018-11-10T06:56:45Z")
Who needs dry docks? Hackers are cheaper, as are cash poor real estate Commanders in Chief. ---
**Author:** ![Didactylos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@Didactylos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didactylos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/44 "2018-11-10T09:13:37Z")
> [@dogbutler](#): > > “Energetic disassembly” when something goes “boom” Breakaway oxidation phenomena. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/45 "2018-11-10T10:06:16Z")
Three Mile Island was described in press conferences as undergoing rapid oxidation. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/46 "2019-04-06T13:55:06Z")
**Update** The damage is enough that the Russkie are reportedly [seriously thinking of scrapping her.](https://defence-blog.com/news/russian-navy-may-scrap-its-only-aircraft-carrier.html) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/47 "2019-04-06T15:33:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Russia might as well write off the idea of a carrier fleet and go all frigates, destroyers and subs only. Or clipper ships? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/48 "2019-04-06T16:00:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **Update** > The damage is enough that the Russkie are reportedly [seriously thinking of scrapping her.](https://defence-blog.com/news/russian-navy-may-scrap-its-only-aircraft-carrier.html) Or maybe turn it into that hotel Trump wanted to build? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/49 "2019-04-06T16:04:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **Update** > The damage is enough that the Russkie are reportedly [seriously thinking of scrapping her.](https://defence-blog.com/news/russian-navy-may-scrap-its-only-aircraft-carrier.html) Might be the first carrier kill for a dry dock in history ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/50 "2019-04-06T16:48:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Might be the first carrier kill for a dry dock in history If it weren’t for the murder-suicide aspect of the story they could paint a little silhouette on the dry dock. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/51 "2019-04-06T19:34:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Why do the Russians have difficulty building large ships? Not that I am complaining. Because they have traded competence for political pull. Remind you of any other country? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/52 "2019-12-12T08:33:34Z")
**UPDATE** And now [its caught fire.](https://tass.com/emergencies/1098601) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/53 "2019-12-12T12:01:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **UPDATE** > And now [its caught fire.](https://tass.com/emergencies/1098601) From the link. > [@](#): > > The engulfed area has grown six-fold to 120 square meters. Diesel fuel is currently burning and the firefighting effort is carried out with the use of foam. Just sink it again. Fire out. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/54 "2019-12-12T13:08:55Z")
If only they’d raked the dry dock. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/55 "2019-12-12T15:47:05Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The _Kutzetsov_ class and her Chinese clones are big, IIRC about the size of a _Forrestral_ or _Kitty Hawk_ class, but carrying a smaller air group due to carrying big arse Flankers. IIRC, they could have had a much smaller ship with the same size wing, if they had simply put smaller A/C on board or had a bigger wing on ship. > > I mean why did you make such a big vessel and outfit her with a ski jump? Then again the Russkies ae iconoclasts in ship design, this is the same group who made the _Kirovs_ with both a nuclear and a conventional powerplant, and I don’t mean they had different power plants in different ships, the had multiple power plants in the same chip. Their super carrier design had both a ski jump and a catapult (waist). The Kuznetsov class are more on par with the Midway class carriers (~45,000 tons) than the Forrestal class (60,000 tons). They’re not rinky-dink little Principe de Asturias carriers, but they’re not US-style fleet carriers either. They do have smaller air wings than their tonnage would indicate- even the Midways had air wings numbering 70 aircraft at the end of their careers (flying F-14s, which were hardly small), while the Kuznetsovs have something like 30. As to why they did what they did? I’m starting to think that large scale, fixed-wing, non-VTOL carrier operations are a whole lot harder than we casual observers probably think, and the only reason the US can do what we do w.r.t. catapults and fixed-wing planes, is because we’ve done it for 75 plus years straight. Everyone else just uses V/STOL planes and ski jumps because it’s much easier and cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/56 "2019-12-12T16:22:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Just sink it again. Fire out. “Today Russian Navy launched new submersible aircraft carrier.” - Pravda ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/57 "2019-12-12T16:38:34Z")
I hate when that happens! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/58 "2019-12-12T17:02:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **UPDATE** > And now [its caught fire.](https://tass.com/emergencies/1098601) This is becoming [a Far Side cartoon](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/71/02/92710200acb2a6e5e0e85d15d496d501.jpg). > [@dogbutler](#): > > “Today Russian Navy launched new submersible aircraft carrier.” - Pravda [It’s been done.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_aircraft_carrier) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/59 "2019-12-12T17:07:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The Kuznetsov class are more on par with the Midway class carriers (~45,000 tons) than the Forrestal class (60,000 tons). They’re not rinky-dink little Principe de Asturias carriers, but they’re not US-style fleet carriers either. They do have smaller air wings than their tonnage would indicate- even the Midways had air wings numbering 70 aircraft at the end of their careers (flying F-14s, which were hardly small), while the Kuznetsovs have something like 30. _Midways_ flew Hornets, never TomCats. They famously had to recover a pair once, necessitating a lengthy talk with the crew of the _Enterprise_ about technical details. > **[Book tells the story of when two F-14 Tomcats were diverted to the USS Midway...](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/book-tells-the-story-of-when-two-f-14-tomcats-were-diverted-to-the-uss-midway/)** > > Book tells the story of when two F-14 Tomcats were diverted to the USS Midway ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/60 "2019-12-12T21:17:42Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > _Midways_ flew Hornets, never TomCats. They famously had to recover a pair once, necessitating a lengthy talk with the crew of the _Enterprise_ about technical details. > [Book tells the story of when two F-14 Tomcats were diverted to the USS Midway - The Aviation Geek Club](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/book-tells-the-story-of-when-two-f-14-tomcats-were-diverted-to-the-uss-midway/) They went straight from F-4s to F-18s? I didn’t realize that there was so much overlap in the interceptor role between F-14s and F-4s in the fleet. At any rate, it’s not like the F-4s were small planes either- all 3 (Su-33, F-4 and F-14) are all of a size, so there’s got to be something unusual about the Kuznetsov class design that precludes a larger air wing that the US carriers don’t have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064.md?page=4)