# Russian grammar: Double-negatives **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649 "2009-10-29T19:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/1 "2009-10-29T19:52:57Z")
Some time back I heard the following joke: – A college linguistics professor was discussing double-negatives with his class. He said, "In English, a double-negative creates a positive. In some languages, such as Russian, a double-negative is still a negative. However, in _no_ language does a double-\*positive \*make a negative. ## A student in the back row called out, “Yeah, right.” While I find the joke very funny, I’m curious about the statement, “In some languages, such as Russian, a double-negative is still a negative.” Is this true? I’m sure that at some point I’m going to tell the joke in the presence of a Russian-speaker and they’re going to tell me, “That’s wrong.” I asked a coworker, an immigrant from Belarus, about this, but she was only about 4 years old when her family moved here and while she can speak Russian, she’s not well-versed in the language’s grammatical rules. ---
**Author:** ![unclelem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ac91a4/32.png) [@unclelem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclelem)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/2 "2009-10-29T20:12:04Z")
I know this is true in Polish, and have heard that it is true for many slavic languages (of which, Russian is one). However, I can’t confirm that it is true in Russian. However, I would note that it is not so much a “double negative” as an “agreement of negativity”. If you have more words that need to agree it could be a triple, quadruple, etc negative. But the words aren’t negating each other the way they do in English. They are agreeing about the negativity. Also, it would be grammatically incorrect to use a single negative in these cases. e.g. it is _wrong_ to say “I didn’t get anything.” One should properly say “I didn’t get nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/3 "2009-10-29T20:15:41Z")
Compare the following sentences - I don’t know anything. I know nothing. I don’t know nothing. The last is not acceptable in English because of the double negative - not knowing nothing would mean that you know something, right? In Russian, Ya nye znayu nichevo is the correct way of saying it, and it does indeed correspond to the English “I not know nothing.” Think of it this way - in Russan, (and Italian, for that matter) the negatives must agree. To say Ya znayu nichevo is as grating and wrong-seeming as saying in English “They does nothing” - the verb and subject don’t agree in number, it should be either ‘They do nothing’ or ‘It does nothing’. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/4 "2009-10-29T20:25:30Z")
IIRC from highschool, in Spanish a double negative does not make a positive. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/5 "2009-10-29T20:54:56Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > In some languages, such as Russian, a double-negative is still a negative. Japanese works this way sometimes. For example, the word \*shika \*means “nothing but” and is always used along with a negative verb. コーヒーを飲みません。 _Koohii o nomimasen._ I do not drink coffee. コーヒーしか飲みません。 _Koohii shika nomimasen._ I do not drink anything but coffee. ETA: Literally, “I do not drink nothing but coffee.” > [@](#): > > A college linguistics professor was discussing double-negatives with his class. He said, "In English, a double-negative creates a positive. A \*\*linguistics \*\*professor would almost certainly never say this, by the way. There are plenty of dialects in English where multiple negation can be either positive or negative depending on the context. Compare the two sentences (both grammatically correct from an objective linguistic point of view): I didn’t not want to go. \<– two negatives = tentatively positive I ain’t never going. \<– two negatives = very negative English isn’t math, and the “no double negatives” rule is an artificial one imposed from outside (like not splitting infinitives). ---
**Author:** ![Polly\_Glot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de053/32.png) [@Polly\_Glot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polly_Glot)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/6 "2009-10-29T21:07:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > IIRC from highschool, in Spanish a double negative does not make a positive. This is correct. “_Nadie sabe nada_.” = Nobody knows anything. And the French equivalent: “_Personne ne sait rien_.” And the Polly GlotTM equivalent: “_A\*\*in’t nobody knows nuthin’._” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/7 "2009-10-29T21:07:24Z")
_No sé nada de esto_. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/8 "2009-10-29T21:22:50Z")
it’s true in all Slavic languages, and as has been said above, it extends to all the parts of a sentence (if that makes sense), so ‘No one told anyone anything about anything’ becomes No one told no one nothing about nothing. (Nikto ne govoril nikomu nichego ni o chom - in Russian) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/9 "2009-10-29T21:27:19Z")
It’s not untrue in Farsi. hh ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/10 "2009-10-29T21:38:26Z")
Thank you very much 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/11 "2009-10-29T23:11:23Z")
In some \*English \*dialects we ain’t got no problem using double negatives. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/12 "2009-10-29T23:56:07Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > In some \*English \*dialects we ain’t got no problem using double negatives. Shouldn’t that be: “we ain’t got no problem using _no_ double negatives”?? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/13 "2009-10-30T01:13:33Z")
I recall being taught when I was learning ancient Greek that multiple negatives tended to add emphasis, but it’s been a long time ago. On the other hand, I was having a little skype converstaion with a Russian, who (IIRC) corrected me when I said я не понемаю немного. (Lit: I not understand not much.). ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/14 "2009-10-30T01:42:08Z")
So, it doesn’t seem to be the case that the professor couldn’t be said not to be incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/15 "2009-10-30T01:45:14Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > I recall being taught when I was learning ancient Greek that multiple negatives tended to add emphasis, but it’s been a long time ago. > > On the other hand, I was having a little skype converstaion with a Russian, who (IIRC) corrected me when I said я не понемаю немного. (Lit: I not understand not much.). Yeah, it’s been a few years since Russian 100, but if I recall correctly, you could have dropped the He and it would have been fine - ‘I understand little’. I’m not sure, but I think what you said implied “There is little I don’t understand.” ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/16 "2009-10-30T02:58:33Z")
\*nemnogo \*(little) does not relate to \*mnogo \*(much) the way \*nikto \*(no one) relates to \*kto \*(who) - it is not really a negative, it’s just idiom. That’s why ‘ya ne ponimayu nemnogo’ is wrong - it’s not a question of dropping the ne-, it’s a question of not needing it in the first place. It does seem to imply there’s little that you don’t understand, but if you want to say that, you would have to go with _‘Est’ malo chto ya ne ponimayu’_. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/17 "2009-10-30T05:30:10Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Shouldn’t that be: “we ain’t got no problem using _no_ double negatives”?? 😃 Naw, “no [noun]” really should be “ain’t no [noun]”, as in “She ain’t no kin to you, noways, so why you worrying about what she’s doing?”. Although you can also say “aint [got/had] no”, as in “I ain’t had no cornbread all week.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/18 "2009-10-30T16:47:43Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > In some \*English \*dialects we ain’t got no problem using double negatives. If I remember correctly, originally all Indo-European languages treated double-negatives as negative. English only changed recently, when the language was remodeled along “logical” lines in the nineteenth century. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/19 "2009-10-30T20:35:31Z")
Both work in English–it all depends on context, and no native speaker would be confused by the difference. You’re correct that it only became “exlusively” positive (quotes to indicate that only perception changed, not the actual grammar) when someone tried to force it into an artificial model of language. ---
**Author:** ![ArmenE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ArmenE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArmenE)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649/20 "2009-10-30T21:42:06Z")
I’m just here to point out that this isn’t a joke but rather a specific quotation. During a lecture by J.L. Austin (of Oxford) at Columbia University, it was Sidney Morgenbesser (, a professor there (here, actually) that uttered the phrase, which I’ve only heard quoted as [QUOTE=Sidney Morgenbesser] Yeah, yeah [/QUOTE] I’ve never heard any mention of Russian or the 2\*neg == neg aspect of your joke being part of Austin’s statement. Nonetheless, for what it’s worth, I’ll nth previous statements that it does hold in Russian. BTW - I’m writing this ~500 feet from the hall this statement originated in. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-grammar-double-negatives/515649.md?page=2)