# Russian language has no native word for passport? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 10, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797 "2022-03-10T05:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797/81 "2022-03-15T15:11:31Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > See my post above from March 13, especially: > > " b of a word or morpheme **:** related by derivation, borrowing…" > > I’m taking “loan” and “borrowing” to refer to the same mechanism. Isn’t that right ? For a layman’s definition of “cognate”, it doesn’t really matter though it waters down the concept considerably. In the field of linguistics, “cognate” absolutely precludes borrowing of vocabulary. For the heck of it, I went and checked out the etymologies for _dacha_ and _borscht_. _Dacha_ is cognate of Latinate words like _date_ and _data_ (which, yes, are borrowings) – the sense of the associated Proto-Indo-European root was “something given”. _Borscht_ is a cognate of German _Borste_ and the first syllable of English _bristle_ (the _-le_ is originally a diminuitive ending) – the sense of the associated Proto-Indo-European root was “tip, point”. [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/bъrščь](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/b%D1%8Ar%C5%A1%C4%8D%D1%8C) > **[dacha - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dacha#English)** ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797/82 "2022-03-15T23:26:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When talking about word derivations, a word can be _either_ cognate with a word from another language, _or_ it can be a loan word from that other language. These are two constrastive processes. They are not synonyms for each other. Not to belabor things, but my quote was from a dictionary definition of “cognate”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797/83 "2022-03-16T02:08:07Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Not to belabor things, but my quote was from a dictionary definition of “cognate”. When the topic is a linguistic one, one might consider using relevant terminology as used in linguistics, not as they might appear in a general purpose dictionary, in a secondary or tertiary definition with little detail. Especially if that usage blurs a significant distinction, and doubly so if that distinction is directly relevant to the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797/84 "2022-03-16T15:51:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@Napier](#): > > > > Not to belabor things, but my quote was from a dictionary definition of “cognate”. > > When the topic is a linguistic one, one might consider using relevant terminology as used in linguistics, not as they might appear in a general purpose dictionary, in a secondary or tertiary definition with little detail. Especially if that usage blurs a significant distinction, and doubly so if that distinction is directly relevant to the conversation.   Yep, it’s better to use terms as used in the field of discussion than more general definitions. It’s not that the general definitions are wrong, but they’re less precise and less useful when in specialist discussions. Part of the charm of SDMB is that we often have people who can explain the technical terms. [A definition of cognate as used by linguists.](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#cognate) > [@Acsenray](#): > > When talking about word derivations, a word can be _either_ cognate with a word from another language, _or_ it can be a loan word from that other language. These are two constrastive processes. They are not synonyms for each other. I’d quibble about either-or, but otherwise agree. For example take the Modern English words “flower” and “flour”. They are cognates, as they are both derived from Middle English “flour”, which is a loan word from Anglo-Norman French “flur”. (This also brings up a lumper-splitter decision: are “flower” and “flour” two separate words in Modern English, or are they one word with variant spellings associated with particular connotations?) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797/85 "2022-03-16T20:42:55Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Yes, but in Spanish it is cocodrilo. It always gets me confused how the “R” wanders around. In a similar vein: > Spanish: Argelia, capital city Argel > German: Algerien, capital city Algier > English: Algeria, capital city Algiers > French: Algérie, capital city Alger > Italian: Italian: Algeria, capital city Algeri > Dutch: Algerije, capital city Algiers > Why do Spanish "r"s wander around like that and even swap places with "l"s? Drives me nuts. it gets even more interesting when you compare spanish and portuguese … e.g. Playa blanca vs. Praia branca and dont get me started on VERDURAS vs. VERDU **L** ERIA (vegetables vs. greengrocer’s) . I think that started a coupe of 100 years ago … hey, let’s fuck a bit with the gringos’ minds 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-language-has-no-native-word-for-passport/960797.md?page=4)