# Russian names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807 "2017-06-12T21:30:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![arygh68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@arygh68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arygh68)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/1 "2017-06-12T21:30:23Z")
Hi. I’m writing a novel in which one of the characters, Daniil Mernikov, was born in the USA from Russian parents (who defected, btw). He marries a Russian gal, Irina, also first-generation American, and they’re having an argument about his decision to go back to firefighting. During the argument she tells him: "And who is this Mac guy, this new boss of yours? Is he the one that’s going to come and tell me “Oh yes, your Daniil was a fine man, Irina Ivanova, but now he’s gone…” My perfectionist muse refuses to continue the scene as she’s not certain I got the names right. Is she Irina Ivanova, Irina Mernikova or Irina Mernikov? Help please? ---
**Author:** ![ToughLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@ToughLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToughLife)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/2 "2017-06-12T21:55:34Z")
If she has taken Daniel’s surname after the marriage then she’s Irina Mernikova, if not, then she stays Irina Ivanova. (Mernikov =male,Mernikova=female) BTW Ivanova is such a cliche , it’s like Smith or Johnson in the US. ---
**Author:** ![arygh68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@arygh68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arygh68)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/3 "2017-06-12T21:57:34Z")
Thank you! Any suggestions for a different surname? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/4 "2017-06-12T22:00:27Z")
Ivanova means “Daughter of Ivan”. If she were Irina, the daughter of Ivan Gospodin, her name would be Irina Ivanova Gospodin. If she then marries Daniil (why two 'i’s?) Mernikov, she becomes Irina Ivanova Mernikov. She would never be Mernikova. For a man, the patronymic would be Ivanovich. As in Daniil Ivanovich Mernikov. By the way, she also might be called variously: Ira, Irinochka, Irisha, Irinka, etc. It gets pretty complicated who gets to use what diminutive/familiar forms. Russians love their names! (Makes reading old Russian literature a pain!) ---
**Author:** ![aktep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@aktep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aktep)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/5 "2017-06-12T22:04:46Z")
No, “Ivanovna” is “daughter of Ivan”. Ivanova is the feminine of the last name Ivanov. If they live in the US, and she took his last name, she’s probably end up as Irina Mernikov, but in Russia she would be Irina Mernikova. (It used to be that Russians didn’t use their family names in address much, but I gather that has changed). ---
**Author:** ![ToughLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@ToughLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToughLife)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/6 "2017-06-12T22:11:12Z")
Examples of Russian surnames ( for a woman) Seregina, Ignatova, Putina, Fomina, Semenova, Gorina, Dolina, Vesnina, Gavrilova,Kasatkina… ---
**Author:** ![ToughLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@ToughLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToughLife)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/7 "2017-06-12T22:21:07Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > If she then marries Daniil (why two 'i’s?) Mernikov, she becomes Irina Ivanova Mernikov. > > She would never be Mernikova. I know a lot of Russian immigrants who have changed their names after marriage both ways some would exactly match husband’s ( Mernikov) others would keep the Russian version (Mernikova) > [@](#): > > Daniil (why two 'i’s?) > **[Daniil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniil)** > > Daniil (Russian: Даниил) is a Russian masculine given name, equivalent to the English given name Daniel. Daniil (Greek: Δανιήλ) may also be a surname. > Notable people with the name include: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/8 "2017-06-12T22:24:02Z")
> [@ToughLife](#): > > If she has taken Daniel’s surname after the marriage then she’s Irina Mernikova, > if not, then she stays Irina Ivanova. (Mernikov =male,Mernikova=female) > BTW Ivanova is such a cliche , it’s like Smith or Johnson in the US. It’s exactly like Johnson, _nyet_ (i.e., Ivan = John)? ---
**Author:** ![ToughLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@ToughLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToughLife)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/9 "2017-06-12T22:28:49Z")
Sure , also Smith = Kuznetsova ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/10 "2017-06-12T22:32:57Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Ivanova means “Daughter of Ivan”. That would be “Ivanovna” - and would be a patronymic, not last name. If the husband’s last name is “Mernikov”, and she takes the husband’s last name, her last name would be “Mernikova”. But that would be in Russia. If the marriage was in the US it would be “Mernikov”, female endings to Russian last names are not used in the US often (if at all). ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/11 "2017-06-13T16:36:14Z")
Russians generally have three names: a given first name, a patronymic (i.e. a named derived from their father’s first name) and a family name. For a women, the patronymic and family name are usually femininzed - Mikhail Gorbachev’s name was Raisa Gorbacheva. In your case, the character’s name would be Irina (given name) Ivanovna (patronymic) Mernikova (femininzed version of her husband’s family name). When speaking, it is not unusual to address someone by both the first name and patronymic at the same time, as in the dialogue quoted. What that exactly implies, I leave to those more knowledgeable. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/12 "2017-06-13T17:36:57Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > That would be “Ivanovna” - and would be a patronymic, not last name. > > If the husband’s last name is “Mernikov”, and she takes the husband’s last name, her last name would be “Mernikova”. But that would be in Russia. If the marriage was in the US it would be “Mernikov”, female endings to Russian last names are not used in the US often (if at all). Yes, Ivanovna. Sorry, a missed “n”. But I was not talking about that as a last name, as my post should have made clear; it’s the female form of the patronymic. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/13 "2017-06-13T17:46:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **DSYoungEsq** : > > By the way, she also might be called variously: Ira, Irinochka, Irisha, Irinka, etc. It gets pretty complicated who gets to use what diminutive/familiar forms. Russians love their names! When I was in grad school, one of the other students was from Russia, and introduced herself as “Anya”. So that’s what everyone called her. She told me once that it was slightly confusing to her that everyone called her the same thing, instead of everyone using a different version of her name. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/14 "2017-06-14T02:33:56Z")
Why is it called a “patronymic” and not just a “patronym”? “Patronymic” sounds like an adjective. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/15 "2017-06-14T03:53:24Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Why is it called a “patronymic” and not just a “patronym”? > > “Patronymic” sounds like an adjective. “Patronym” and “patronymic” are both valid English nouns. They’re acquired from French, which acquired them from Latin, which acquired them from Greek. In Greek, πατρώνυμος was a name you’d inherited or acquired from your father, whereas πατρωνυμικόν was a name that was modelled on or derived from your father’s name. By the time we get to middle French, _patronyme_ means a family name transmitted from your father, whereas _patronymique_ means a personal name derived from the personal name of your father (or a more remote paternal ancestor). The distinction breaks down in modern English, where “patronym” has basically become an alternative form of “patronymic”. Confusing, “patronymic” is also an adjective. “Patronymic” is the adjective from the noun “patronym”. The adjective from the noun “patronnymic” is “patronymical”. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/16 "2017-06-15T00:14:33Z")
In the story, why would her husband’s American supervisor refer to her by a Russian name construct as opposed to maybe “Mrs. Mernikov?” Possibly Irina Mernikov. There is no saying he would know to use the patronym also. Some of it would most likely depend on if they had met before. If I were done in by an industrial accident I’d expect my co-workers and supervisors to refer to my wife as Mrs. San. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/17 "2017-06-15T02:42:13Z")
Yes that’s exactly the issue. Why would a boss in America address an American child of immigrants in the Russian style? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/18 "2017-06-15T03:31:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes that’s exactly the issue. Why would a boss in America address an American child of immigrants in the Russian style? A nitpick: it’s not the boss addressing her. It is her imagining the boss addressing her. If she is reasonably “fresh off the boat”, she’d still automatically assume people would address her by her name and patronymic ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-names/788807/19 "2017-06-15T03:31:56Z")
The story isn’t suggesting that her husband’s boss ever did or would address her this day. In the story she’s hypothesising an interaction between herself and the boss, but she has the boss speak in her Russian-influenced English because, well, that’s her dialect, and it’s her hypothesis, narrated in her voice.